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Feb. 14, 2024

Ayahuasca and a Taino Food Fight with Wanda Conboy

Ayahuasca and a Taino Food Fight with Wanda Conboy

Join my friend Wanda Conboy and I as we discuss how the Taino people fought back, Ayahuasca and another tragic love story that is better than Romeo and Juliet.

0:00- Interview with Wanda Conboy

14:20-Dish of the Week

19:14- Tea Time: Ayahuasca

1:05:14: Salome and Aracua

Wanda comes from a Taino Background and was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her practice is a mix of Shamanism, Reiki, Espiritismo, Santeria, Hoodoo and working with the sacred. In the summer of 2022, she spent two months studying in the Amazon jungle in Peru. Her studies were focused on plant medicine shamanism, specifically Ayahuasca Curanderismo. She has acquired a wealth of knowledge and healing. She came back to the western world a new person and with new plant spirit guides that have changed her practice for the better.

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Transcript

Wanda

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical, the ancient, everything in between. So on today's episode, we're going to chat a little bit about plant medicine and tell another. Tragic love story, but I love it. So, first off, I'm gonna apologize to everybody if my voice sounds a little crazy.

[00:00:28] I'm a little congested. Got a little cold getting over it. But anyway, I hope you guys are having a great week. And if you're not, I hope it gets really better soon. So today, we have an awesome, awesome guest. We have another person who's my actual friend. So this is my friend, Wanda Conboy. We're going to welcome her to the show.

[00:00:47] Wanda comes from a Taino background and was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her practice is a mix of shamanism, Reiki, Espiritismo, Santeria, Hoodoo, [00:01:00] and working with the sacred. In the summer of 2022. , she spent two months studying in the Amazon jungle in Peru. Her studies were focused on

[00:01:09] plant Medicine Shamanism, specifically, Ayahuasca, Curanderismo. She came back to the Western world a new person, and with new plant spirit guides that have changed her practice for the better. Hi Wanda, how are you? Hi, Ashley. Thank you for having me. You're welcome.

[00:01:29] I'm so happy. I love when I have people who I'm actually friends with because then I can just have a really easy conversation. So the way I usually start with people, and I'll start with you, is how did your and I know for you it goes way back, so you started wherever you want to start. How did your spiritual journey begin?

[00:01:49] Wanda: Well, for me you know, we're from the Caribbean, so that's kind of just instilled in the way that you're raised. And then we came to the mainland when I was about [00:02:00] six or seven, so all of that just kind of disappeared for a really long time. And it wasn't until I was already a mom and you know, in my mid twenties that I started to...

[00:02:13] Just become curious and you know, cause I've always felt spirit and I've always seen spirit But I know that they're around so I just started doing a lot of my own research and teachings and wasn't up until maybe four or five years ago that my soul felt Unhappy I felt unfulfilled. I didn't feel complete.

[00:02:37] I didn't feel whole like something very big a very big part of me was missing and You know, I started looking around for communities of like minded people because it's very hard to find a place where I fit in and that's been the story, not just for my spiritual life, but just in the everyday mundane world.

[00:02:57] I'm just very different from most of the people that I [00:03:00] encounter. So I practice. It's a little bit of everything. I can't marry just one specific path or belief system because there's truth in all of it. And that's kind of how I ended up meeting you and the rest of our sisters through our studies.

[00:03:18] You know, that led me down a path of wanting to learn more about ayahuasca and plant medicine. So everything that I do at my church currently here in Newton is incorporated with plant medicine with different teas that are non psychedelics you know, having the plant spirits become our allies because that was very foreign to me before, before the jungle.

[00:03:40] And now I couldn't imagine.

[00:03:43] Ashley: the world

[00:03:44] Wanda: any other way so much so that I'm going back in January because being called to go, I'm being called to take a group of people with me so we have space for 10 more. And it's just an ever evolving practice. Like once you really step forward for [00:04:00] yourself and say, I have to step up and do this work, no one's, no one's gonna do it for you.

[00:04:06] And then, you know, the blindfold start to come off and You start to make realizations and you start to heal and like one of the biggest things that ayahuasca taught me before I ever drank medicine was the number one ancestral trauma that I was here to heal from my lineage and I think about that every single day because everyone knows what happened, you know, to the Taino culture, what happened to our women.

[00:04:34] But she showed it to me and for me to see, My ancestors that way and how that has been passed down generation to generation Like just those type of assaults continue to happen five six hundred years later So that just like lit a fire within me like that's what I want to work on is heal my lineage and then teach others How to heal that as well because imagine if [00:05:00] one person from every family said I'm gonna step forward and help heal my family line

[00:05:06] Ashley: The type of world that we would be

[00:05:08] Wanda: living in it would be so different.

[00:05:10] Ashley: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Ooh, that is so true So I'm gonna touch on a couple of different things. You said number one like the way I know Wanda is that we Were in classes together. We has the same mentor for a long time Then us and a couple of our shaman sisters what we call them We formed our own group called the sisters of the sacred and we do healing ceremony So she that's part of the reason I met Wanda.

[00:05:40] So It's just, it was a great thing, she, and it ended up, it's very strange how you meet people in your life, you don't know, like, how you're gonna end up, end up being so close, and like, having a lot of similarities, and having the way that we think, and all of our sisters, we all meld really well together, so, it's ended up being, a wonderful blessing, [00:06:00] for me, especially, I, I, I'm just so happy to have friendships like that also, the other thing we're gonna talk about, I wanna ask you, Wanda, so for instance, Santeria, a lot of people will say, well, You can't practice all these things together, like, you know, cause Santeria is a very specific closed practice that you know, I know you know a lot about that so people might see to you, how do you incorporate this into this, because this is a specific closed practice for this ethnic group or these types of people or somebody that you, you know, did.

[00:06:35] So what do you say to people who say things to you like that? Well, I feel like I know this is something we've talked about. That's what I was like. It's an interesting point.

[00:06:45] Wanda: So the name of my church, Yemaya Moon Spiritual Church, which is named after the goddess Yemaya. She has been with me in this life and across.

[00:06:58] lives. I'll [00:07:00] start off by saying that for the people that do know or don't know, in order to be initiated in that religion, you have to be what's called crowned. You have to do a it's like a ceremony of exploration. It's called mesa de exploracion, which is basically you sit in front of a baba lao, who's the highest of the high priest can never be a female.

[00:07:20] And, you know, they threw a divination ritual with shells and talking to spirit. You go on a discovery and explore who is my mother, who is my father. That's just another way of saying, how am I going to be crowned? Everyone has a mom and a dad. So I know that mine is Yemaya, my, my mother. For many reasons, I chose to not get crowned.

[00:07:43] I'm

[00:07:43] Ashley: a very free spirit, and there's a lot

[00:07:46] Wanda: of rules in this religion. It's the old ways, it goes back many, many generations, and there's just a lot of the things that they practice as far as, the animal blood [00:08:00] sacrifice. My spirit just can't for me to think that, For me to obtain a good favor from spirit that I have to spill the blood of an animal or have someone do it for me, because once again, women are not allowed to do that either.

[00:08:14] There are just many other ways that you can ask for favors from spirit without spilling blood because I don't feel that my life has more value than that of an animal. So for many reasons, being part of two houses that were just Not ethical. They were not correct. They were all about money. And well, yes, I have a practice and everything has value.

[00:08:37] Everything has an exchange. There are many ways to go about that. No one's getting rich off of, the things that we're doing. These people were charging thousands and thousands of dollars for things that I've been able to work on my own. It didn't cost me anything. When spirit comes to you, it doesn't matter what pantheon they belong to.

[00:08:59] [00:09:00] And that's what I try to explain because I've met people through doing, you know, the fairs. And all of the people that I've talked to have been very nice. Like we know you're not crowned, but they can see my people. And although they're crowned. They were very respectful and they're like, we like what you're doing.

[00:09:17] I've never met anyone so far that that has had something negative to say, but all of these cultures have the same problem. It's all a man made book and I'm going to tell you how you should act and what you should do. And I just, I can't do that. So I tell people when your spirit guides come, unless you're like, evoking or invoking them.

[00:09:45] They've been walking with

[00:09:46] Ashley: you

[00:09:47] Wanda: for a very long time, across many lifetimes, many dimensions, and even the lifetimes that are to come. So let's say that Ochoon or Baba Yaga or Baron Samity or any [00:10:00] spirit guide across any pantheon, and they show up to provide assistance, what am I supposed to say? No thanks spirit, I'm good because.

[00:10:09] I didn't receive this the way those people think I should receive it. So I'm not allowed to receive your blessings and I just can't do that. Like I've never invoked or evoked anything. They just kind of show up and I know that the list is ever growing, but it's usually because people are telling me, Oh, you know, you have this one sitting next to you and that one sitting next to you and you're not always aware.

[00:10:34] So the best advice I could give people is just to have an open mind that There are many ways to spare it and many ways to heal and just because it's not your way or a way that you agree with doesn't mean that it's any less valid.

[00:10:49] Ashley: That's facts. That's so true. I, controversial thought I also, I don't really believe in [00:11:00] quote unquote invoking.

[00:11:02] Mm hmm. A big spirit. Especially like, okay, I mean, I don't do this, but some people do this in their practice where they'll like, invoke small spirits. I don't really like to do that because small spirits with like kind of lower vibrational energy to me, you don't know what they're really up to. I think everyone's trying to trick me, so I don't like it.

[00:11:23] But big, big deities, I don't really know about Some people will be like, oh, I invoke so and so, and I'm like, ugh. I don't know, like I talked about this in a prior episode, I don't know, they're way older and wiser and bigger than we even understand, and I don't really think you should just call upon these spirits, unless they come to you.

[00:11:47] Now, there is a difference between deciding, and I know some people have done this, to like, become a devotee of a certain deity. That's fine, because that is a way of respecting the deity. So you [00:12:00] are saying, I want to work with this deity, you're gonna go, you're gonna learn all about it, you're gonna sit with it, you're gonna meditate, you're gonna give offerings, that's totally different because that is a way of honoring your deity.

[00:12:11] But when people are just like, I just want to invoke blah blah blah, I'm like, that's not gonna work. Like, it's not gonna work. Super sorry. I'm just letting you know. If it works, great, but you have a 0. 0% chance that's gonna work. But I also agree with you, and I know that we kind of practice similarly in the way that like, we both have spirits that we work with that aren't necessarily part of our ancestral lineage or our culture, but I agree with you.

[00:12:38] I think it's whoever comes, you know, I've talked about this episodes ago. I work a lot with Baba Yaga. I am not Slavic in any way. But she is a big presence in my life. I work with tons of spirits that aren't, I work with a spirit that's directly from my line and culture, but most of the spirits aren't.

[00:12:57] But I honor them. I talk to them. I [00:13:00] give them offerings. So they decide to work with me. So I think it just depends on how people decide to work and Also, we're not working with them within these closed practices, just like you just, your whole explanation about why you're not crowned in Santeria makes so much sense, because you wanted, you're more of a free spirit, you're like, I want to do things the way I want to do it, which is fine, and I think people say a lot of things about Well, for you, it's not like this, but other people, they'll say stuff about appropriation, and I think people need to understand there's a difference between appropriation, practicing a closed practice that you have no part of, which is not something either of us do, and then there is going around, somebody could say, Oh, I'm crowned by blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but they haven't been through any of the initiations and things like that.

[00:13:46] Now that is appropriation, because they don't actually know what they're talking about. But if you're just working with a spirit from a different pantheon, you can do that. You can't claim that you're initiated into this lukumi, you know, [00:14:00] tradition if you've never done it. But if you want to work with Shang Go, go ahead.

[00:14:03] Nobody's stopping you. It's fine. But don't say that you are initiate when you have no idea what you're talking about. That's appropriation. Appreciation is just saying, well, I love Shang Go and I've talked to him and I give him offerings and stuff. So that's kind of the difference there.

[00:14:18] That's at least what I think. Okay. So, we've had this great discussion, we're gonna move to our Dish of the Week

[00:14:26] okay, so, this week for our Dish of the Week, I found this very cool article and because you're Puerto Rican, because you're Taíno, I thought we'd talk about this. So, I never knew this, but in, okay, in the late 15th century, when Spanish colonizers were in the Caribbean, they started to actually starve.

[00:14:46] And this big act of rebellion, it really started in their newest settlement, which was La Isabela, which is now the Dominican Republic. So if, oh, also, [00:15:00] I should mention this, if anybody doesn't know what Taino is, Taino people were, there was different islands, obviously, in the Caribbean. There were a group of indigenous people, indigenous to the Caribbean islands and I think And they're also the Arawak people who are in different islands, too.

[00:15:18] Those are kind of the two biggest Caribbean indigenous peoples, usually, that you hear about. So, the Taino people were in the Dominican Republic. And what they did, I think, was so interesting. So they called it, by this environmental historian named Lizabeth Parysny Gerbert, she called it the New World's First Food Fight.

[00:15:45] So what happened was, the Taino people, obviously, the Spanish people had been there for a while, this is the late 15th century, so this is the 1600s, they had come and they were just, you know, Messin with the Tainos this whole time. [00:16:00] They gave them a ton of diseases. They killed them.

[00:16:03] They, you know, did awful, awful things to them. Now, the people who were still there were like, okay, this sucks. And the Spanish thought that the Taino people were just gonna like... Lay down and they were like actually we're never gonna do that. So what they did was the Spanish colonizers were in the Dominican Republic and they were like wow Look at this land.

[00:16:28] It's beautiful. It's lush. There's so many fruits and vegetables But guess what? They had no idea what fruits and vegetables We're good to eat. They didn't know what was gonna kill them and what was good So what the Taino people decided was we're not even gonna farm They just stopped farming because they weren't gonna deal with any of the Spanish trying to take their crops They literally just stopped they were They went into the forest, like more inland, away from where the Spanish colonizers were setting up settlements [00:17:00] and just kind of hung out there.

[00:17:01] And the Spanish were so afraid to go into the jungle, they thought they would be lost forever or they thought they would die. Which they probably would because they had no idea what was going on there. That they just stayed on the coast and they were starving. They didn't, and so what they ended up doing, the Spanish, was eating whatever they could find.

[00:17:20] Rats, rodents, lizards, snakes. The Spanish ate so many of these rodents that they were eating, some of them went extinct because they ate so many of them.

[00:17:30] So what the Spanish decided to do, Was now bring over different animals that they were more familiar with like cows, sheep, goats, horses and they brought different kinds of vegetables that they knew and that's when they started planting all this stuff So they actually kind of messed up all the flora and fauna In the Dominican Republic because they realized the Taino people were not going to help them So I just thought this was like one [00:18:00] of the Most interesting articles because all these things were not even native like wheat there was no wheat there Until the Spanish brought it over because they were like, well, we're gonna starve and we don't know what's good here to eat So it was really really interesting I always like to bring up the fact that all these places that were colonized they never laid down and took it like people have this weird false narrative that The indigenous people or whether it's Africa or Asia or wherever in the world that they were weak or that they We're just submissive.

[00:18:35] They were not they tried a million different ways. They revolted they tried to starve them out they did all sorts of different things to try to fight the colonizers and Literally the Taino people were we will destroy our own island to get you guys away from us Well, that's how much we hate you

[00:18:52] now, we all know. . So, that's our dish of the week kind of situation. So, now I'm gonna plug myself before we move on. [00:19:00] So, if you enjoy this show, you can gladly follow me on whatever podcasting platform you listen to, whether it's Apple, Spotify, Google, All you pod bean and all those whatever you listen to subscribe.

[00:19:14] It's free Give us a rating give us a review. That's also free Give us five stars if you really like it. That's really awesome Also, if you ever feel like oh, I really like this show. I want to give her a tip You can give me a tip. It's in the show notes. There's a link you can give me a dollar or two And also, if you have any questions, any comments, any suggestions, feel free to email me at dinewiththedivinepod at gmail.

[00:19:40] com. Okay, so today's tea time we're going to talk about ayahuasca. Okay, so if you've not, you've, a lot of people have heard of ayahuasca recently, I think in the past like two, three years, because , Megan Fox and Machine Gun Kelly, I [00:20:00] believe they went to Peru.

[00:20:01] I believe, I'm not absolutely sure. I could be making that part up. I'm not sure what country they went to. They went and they did ayahuasca. They spoke about their experience and people, everybody was like, I want to do ayahuasca. I don't like when people just want to do stuff for a trend that's like a deep spiritual practice so I don't think that's a good idea and I know Wanda does neither so we're going to discuss it and we're going to explain it to you guys Wanda is going to explain it from her much more educated background about this and I'm going to explain it from what I read on the internet and from what I learned from Wanda.

[00:20:35] What'd you say? I said, we're experts. We're experts. No. The two heads are making one, we're, we're, we're, we're knowledgeable. Well, not me, Wanda is, let's get that straight right now. Wanda's very knowledgeable. Wanda spent two months, two months, right?

[00:20:51] In the jungle? Mm hmm. She spent, I said earlier, she spent two months in the jungle studying. She's done ayahuasca like a gazillion times [00:21:00] now. She knows a lot about the effects. She knows how to make, like Wanda knows. Okay, she's, she's, she's got it. She went to ayahuasca college, guys, so I'm just letting you know.

[00:21:09] So, now you're like, Ashley, shut up. What's ayahuasca? Let me tell you. Okay, so I, this is from Wikipedia, everybody. Ayahuasca is a South American psychoactive and ethogenic brewed drink, traditionally used socially. And as a ceremonial or shamanic spiritual medicine among the indigenous people of the Amazon Basin, especially in areas of Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, Venezuela, and more recently in North America and parts of Europe.

[00:21:39] The infusion causes altered states of consciousness, also known as psychedelic experiences, which include visual hallucinations and altered perceptions of reality. Okay, so that's a big thing, right? So, ayahuasca comes from a vine, right, Wanda? Correct. Okay. It comes from a [00:22:00] vine, and the vine, it's just a vine, or does it come off a tree?

[00:22:04] Wanda: It's, it can become a giant vine, so you need the vine. They don't actually use the leaves in the brew, they use the leaves of a secondary plant called chacruna. Okay. But you can't just have a baby ayahuasca plant. and be able to harvest it, they need to be up to 10 years old, and some of the vines are over 100 years old.

[00:22:26] So the older the vine, the more potent the medicine.

[00:22:29] Ashley: Oh, okay, perfect. This is why we're learning together. Okay, I didn't know that. Very interesting. So, there's also a chemically similar preparation and sometimes people call it pharmahuasca, which can be prepared using DMT and MAOIs, if that sounds familiar, well, we're gonna get into this too in a minute, MAOIs are, in a lot of antidepressants, a primary [00:23:00] ingredient.

[00:23:01] So one really interesting thing, and I put an article in the show notes about this, they did a lot of studies, and they're continually doing a lot of studies, about ayahuasca and its effects on depression. They have seen, literally, and it's in this article, I'm not going to go and read it all, you can read it in show notes.

[00:23:20] that ayahuasca actually can alter the brain chemistry of people. So just like people take antidepressants, you know, if they have a chemical imbalance that causes them depression, ayahuasca literally is doing something similar. It can actually change people's brain chemistry. So they're doing a lot of different studies on that now still, and it's actually seen to be...

[00:23:42] Really effective in helping people with drug addiction. It, it seems to be really, really effective for that but again, this is something they're continually studying and yeah. Wanda, what have you seen so far, in your practice that it really helps people with, that you think?[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Have you seen it help people, like, in their everyday life?

[00:24:03] Wanda: Absolutely. I will start off by saying, though, that this beautiful medicine although theoretically it's great for everyone, not everyone can partake in ceremony.

[00:24:17] Such as people with very strong mental health disorders, where it's not even... If you've been diagnosed, but if it's your mother, your father, your grandparents, like if there's a lot of people with, psychosis by, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, that would probably automatically disqualify you without you even taking like MAOI inhibitors or SSRIs, because you can go into serotonin syndrome, or even a permanent psychosis.

[00:24:45] That's why screening people in an application is extremely important, because There's no shaman in the world and no Western doctor in the world that's going to get you out of a permanent psychosis. Of course, yeah. One thing [00:25:00] I'd like to add about that is that the biggest thing that you could do to help yourself is to tell the truth.

[00:25:07] Hmm. As people know, Oh, if I say that I'm on this medication and I have this history, they're going to deny me. And while this is a beautiful and wonderful medication, we'll call it that. It's not the only remedy. There are other things that people with those disorders can take. As far as what it could help with that.

[00:25:27] I've seen It opens your heart center The biggest thing that you have to come here with is an open mind you come with an intention You can state it to the shaman once you sit in front of them and you have to keep in mind the one thing that you want to focus on in ceremony might not be What needs to be focused on?

[00:25:50] So grandmother, she she's going to give you what you need, not what you want. I've had people come here that have drug [00:26:00] dependencies, alcoholism, depression, and yeah, their ceremonies, they, they

[00:26:07] Ashley: make me work, but they're

[00:26:10] Wanda: working as well. And they'll come here just very sheltered, like. What did I get myself into with this witch in the woods over here?

[00:26:18] Because we always start with plant baths just to ready ourselves for the medicine. And we also do Mapacho, which is Nicotina rustica, which is native to the Amazon. It's sacred tobacco. So you get cleansed with that as well. It's sage and, but these people are so afraid. And by the time they leave in the morning, completely different.

[00:26:36] Everybody's so open, so friendly. They receive so many insights. It helps with everything that you can imagine and then some most people I don't think I've ever seen anyone not astral travel Mm hmm. I'm guilty of that. I leave all the time But the people sometimes won't remember. Oh, I slept the whole time.

[00:26:59] [00:27:00] No, you didn't I know that And sometimes they don't remember So a lot of people will tell you it's very important to know what it is that you're healing from And while I do agree with that to a degree Just because you don't remember doesn't mean that it didn't happen. And do you really need to unfold and slice open every single trauma, every single?

[00:27:22] Yes. Do you need to open that in order to release it and heal from it? And this is where, you know, the medicine comes in to guide you. Your soul is understanding, but you're Human mind doesn't remember, you know, your allies are here to help you, your ancestors. So, I for one, I don't think that you need to have knowledge of every single thing because the human mind and the heart just aren't made to hold so much all the time.

[00:27:54] Yeah. Because that will

[00:27:56] Ashley: break you. Oh, yeah. [00:28:00] That'll break you. No, that's such a good point. I think and One thing that I see from like talking to you and like other people and also I want to mention Like when you say grandmother, we're talking about ayahuasca. I don't want to talk says grandmother when she refers to it So I just want people to know what she means.

[00:28:20] A lot of people who talked about it And we'll talk about this too, the thing, and again, okay, we're gonna talk again about the brain chemistry for a minute. So, again with the studies that they found, they literally saw that like the connections where we do planning and we make reason.

[00:28:38] In your brain, when someone was doing ayahuasca, those connections became very fluid, very chaotic. Meaning, that it wasn't rigid the way that we normally are, right? The sky is blue, the ground is down, dirt is brown, that kind of thing. They found that when people are doing ayahuasca, [00:29:00] their mind was opened up.

[00:29:01] Like, hey, maybe the sky is purple. Like, I'm just, I'm being bullshitting right now, but I'm just trying to make you understand what I'm saying, their mind became way more open just like Wanda's talking about now and when you talk about healing traumas When we do, especially when we do shamanic work, we literally have to take people at some point back to their trauma sometimes.

[00:29:26] And that sucks. And that's why it's really important, and we, you know, me and Wanda and our other shaman sisters, and one of them who is actually a therapist we all talk about this a lot. It's really important that when we're doing kind of trauma healing work with people that they're either seeing a therapist, that they have seen a therapist, that they're talking to somebody professional about this because we're gonna take them somewhere and we don't want to do it without knowing that they also have a professional behind them.

[00:29:53] We're a supplement, we're not their direct healer, but I think the beautiful thing, and [00:30:00] that's why Wanda has an application, the same kind of thing she was saying, this is why she screens people, because she wants to make sure they're, they're in the right place for this the beautiful thing about it with ayahuasca that I've seen from people I talk to, Is that, while like Wanda said, you may feel like you're not, oh well I was sleeping, I didn't acknowledge all these pains and hurts, but the work was being done anyway.

[00:30:23] It was just being done without your knowledge, because the medicine was running through you, so it was just happening. And it's not like, you had to be like, yes this happened to me, yes I have to acknowledge it, sometimes the way you might have to do with other people. It's just... The medicine was running through you.

[00:30:40] So the healing happened anyway, so that's one thing I've seen and I've heard from speaking to a lot of people who have done ayahuasca and why it has helped them. Okay, so there's been evidence found from a thousand years ago. I predict that it's way older than that. But the evidence quote unquote, what [00:31:00] people have found and that they saw was for earliest was like a thousand years ago.

[00:31:05] And they also saw that people were doing ayahuasca. Along with I forget the actual name of the leaf, but the leaf that cocaine's made from. A lot of places where people use like the leaf, I forget, I think it's cac cac cacawa, I forget. The name Cocoa, it's cocoa. It's just cocoa, okay. Those places were number one mountainous areas, you know, like Peru, Bolivia, a lot of these places.

[00:31:29] And a lot of those people would chew on those leaves to combat altitude sickness. And that's what it was normally used for before people came and were like, Oh, we can make a drug from this and get people high. So most people were just using it as ceremony or they were using it to combat altitude sickness.

[00:31:47] This is like something those like people in these areas have been using that for thousands thousands of years So in the 16th century the Spanish saw people doing ayahuasca and they were like, oh shit This is terrible like because how dare you and [00:32:00] we talked about this in a previous episode a lot of the colonizers and a lot Of these Christian missionaries were like how dare Anybody do a medicine or something that will put them closer to God than we think they should be, right? Like, how dare they? So, of course it had to be the work of the devil. So, it became a problem. People didn't want them to do it. But a lot of people who do ayahuasca are people who are deep in the Amazon, like I said, Amazon Basin.

[00:32:29] They're down there. So it's not easy to get there. Even now, it's not easy to get there, so, they weren't always bothered so much, but the Spanish didn't like it one bit. Now, the way that they prepare it, and Wanda, you can tell me way more about this. It becomes a tea, right?

[00:32:44] I think they macerate the vine. And then it becomes a tea. You, like, how do you make it? You tell me, Wanda, I'm so sorry. I read about it and then I got confused.

[00:32:55] Wanda: Well, during our training... You know, we were there to train and [00:33:00] learn how to facilitate.

[00:33:01] Ashley: So, towards

[00:33:04] Wanda: the middle part of our journey, once we started to get into our student ceremonies, we were actually taught how to make it.

[00:33:10] It's not really something that you can make from scratch here because where are you going to get the vine from? You're going to need about 75 to 100 pounds of vine. Wow. Probably even twice the amount in leaves of chacruna in order to make a brew. That's probably about two or three liters Wow, wow, wow reduce reduce reduce.

[00:33:32] So basically someone goes out and collects the vine. Mm hmm, and then you have to You're basically beating it with a mallet and it's a shredding once you break it down So once it's all cleaned up, you start to layer it because it literally looks like, like twine by the time you're done with it and you layer a big giant cauldron, a hole in the center.

[00:33:56] So it's like you're going around the circle of the [00:34:00] pot and then in the center of that, you're adding all of the leaves. Oh, interesting. While you're doing that. You're praying, you're singing, you're talking, you're putting your blessings into it. And because if you go in angry, if you go in feeling forced, then guess what's going to happen to the medicine and to the people that are drinking the medicine.

[00:34:22] You're not covering them with love and happy thoughts. You're giving

[00:34:27] Ashley: them your anger.

[00:34:28] Wanda: So you boil that down for hours and hours and hours. And technically it's a three to four day process where What you boil it down to, that basically gives you, let's say half a liter. You pour that into a container and then you add more water to the pot and then you do it again.

[00:34:47] So you're reducing and reducing. And once you get to the fourth reduction that you're no longer using the vine or the leaves, you're gonna reduce that even further. All four boils together, [00:35:00] and that's what gives you your medicine as far as how I make it here. I don't make it from scratch, I have contacts from the center because the center uses this medicine from these specific curanderos and they're very clever with how they send it over and I have to reconstitute it because they send it as a paste.

[00:35:23] So they've already... Blessed and on all of the work because now this is my medicine and I have to reconstitute it It's the same process of singing and blessing and so playing it with my patro It's just that I'm not making it from scratch because I don't have the capability Basically, we live like in Florida the Carolinas it could grow and flourish there, but not in New Jersey.

[00:35:46] You need a Amazon climate in order to do that Unless it's gonna start raining in my dining room in the winter. I don't

[00:35:54] Ashley: see Yeah, I thought about it Of course, you can [00:36:00] make it maybe you can make your little greenhouse for it. Yeah, so that's yeah That's interesting. I didn't realize how much it took That two or three liters.

[00:36:09] That's crazy. Yeah, so now you guys know a little bit how like people make it. So another couple things about But a lot of the time people have to do sort of, dietary restrictions, like a couple days before a lot of the time it's not eating spicy or heavily seasoned food fatty foods, caffeines sometimes acidic foods, and even some people may say you should abstain from alcohol,

[00:36:35] abstain from other type of drugs, probably. Probably not medications that you have to take, , for your life, but, if you're just, casually smoking weed, maybe don't do that for a week. And I know some people, like, when I was doing research, they said maybe you should abstain from sex.

[00:36:50] Huh. Some places. So, there's that. And then, another thing, you probably should not use, it's not the same as like mushrooms or something, a lot of [00:37:00] people do mushrooms, but you should probably only do it with somebody like Wanda, or somebody who knows what they're doing, experienced curanderos, shamans, other people who really know a lot about it that way that you have people with you.

[00:37:16] We'll go into the ceremony in a minute, but there's a whole ceremony around it. So it's not like you're just doing like people just do shrooms and like they're happy and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with doing shrooms. But this there's ceremony like Juana's talked about when she prepares, she's singing, she's praying.

[00:37:33] It's a whole thing. So it's something that you do with somebody who knows what they're doing. You don't just do it. It's not really one of those things that you can just do. Part of the reason it's good to be on a special diet and another thing that people commonly know about ayahuasca Is that sometimes people can vomit or poop?

[00:37:52] This is something that happens when people do it. A lot of people will say this is part of the cleansing It's [00:38:00] getting something out of you that needs to get out Sometimes it can be Light, sometimes you could not have any at all, and sometimes it could be a lot, it just depends on the person, I guess, and what they've eaten in those past couple days.

[00:38:15] Another thing that I read, that they said people should be careful if they have any esophageal issues, because of the possibility that they could vomit, any ulcers people who are in early pregnancy, people who have, you know, people who are having bad morning sickness and things like that. But again, usually...

[00:38:33] The people who you're with, if you're with an experienced shaman, an experienced kirandero, they will be able to manage that and be able to help you through that. Okay, and right into what Wanda was talking about before, I have this as a quote, the indigestion, the indigestion, the ingestion of ayahuasca can cause significant but temporary emotional and psychological Distress now depending where a person [00:39:00] is in their mental health journey and their spiritual journey.

[00:39:04] It could cause them distress Again, it's something that will end and that's why you have somebody who's experienced with you because they can walk you through that And they can help you through that. But again, that's why Wanda said this is why she screams people who have Mental health disorders that it could put them into a permanent psychosis.

[00:39:24] She's not gonna Recommend that they do this because this could really really hurt them and and like she said nobody can cure you after that So it's really important like she said to be super super honest and this isn't any as a nurse I'm just gonna put out my nurse hat for a second, please in any medical situation be honest, please because honestly You're only hurting yourself when you lie about Oh, I don't drink, or I'm not drinking, I'm not smoking, just be honest, because anybody who's trying to help you, we want to help you, we don't want anything bad to happen to you, especially when you're doing healing ceremonies, [00:40:00] there's lots of people who, unlike Wanda, aren't ethical, so , they will help you into situations that actually will end up harming you, that's why you have to be super responsible yourself to be honest with what you're doing and who you're doing it with, and really research the people that you're doing things with.

[00:40:18] Wanda, like I said, she went to Ayahuasca College. She has proof of that. She learned from people who do this. Every day probably so you want to go and see somebody who's really been educated about this subject Not just somebody who's like yeah, I got this from a guy like that's not a good idea because of all the things that it can induce you want somebody who can help you through that when you're going through it Okay, what's the other thing I wanted to mention?

[00:40:45] Some people are like, is that legal? Okay, it's a weird legal situation guys. It doesn't really make sense Now, I'm gonna read this, because you might be like, what's going on here? Now, the cultivation of the plant is not [00:41:00] controlled, okay, technically. What you need to know is that it's a real weird legal gray area, because religiously Nobody can tell you you can't do it if it's part of your religion, but they try to tell you that you can't, because they try to stop it from being in certain places, and there's a lot of rules around it, same thing with peyote, same thing with some different ethogenic drugs that different indigenous people use But there are places where it's legal and again, there's places where you can get it ethically, which I think is the bigger point.

[00:41:35] There's a lot of things that are illegal that I think are stupid. But there's a lot of people who are using things ethically and that's like the biggest thing here, I think, if you're thinking about ayahuasca. Okay, now the more spiritual part down here, and then we'll get to our story pretty soon. People who have consumed ayahuasca report having mystical experiences and [00:42:00] spiritual revelations regarding their purpose on earth, the true nature of the universe, and deep insight into how to be the best person they can possibly be.

[00:42:08] Many people report therapeutic effects, especially around depression and personal traumas. This is Yeah, so this is viewed as a spiritual awakening, and can often be described as a near death experience or a rebirth experience. And that can depend on where people are from too. They say like, a lot of people in the west will use terms like a ego death or say that they're remembering re repressed memories, but a lot of people who are on the more spiritual side or know more about it, or indigenous to these communities where it grows.

[00:42:41] They just talk about astral travel and kind of being one with the environment. So it just depends on your experience. Everybody's experience seems to be different. One thing I wanted to ask you, Wanda, have you seen somebody have a negative experience and why do you think they had a negative experience?

[00:42:58] Wanda: Yes, [00:43:00] many. Remember I trained in the jungle with a lot of people. Yeah. I've seen a lot of it. I've seen people either afraid of doing the work because now it's too late. You drank too, too late

[00:43:16] Yes. I, yeah, it's in you. I cut, I can cut it. I can terminate the entire experience for you. But you didn't come here to do that, so I will not. Mm. I can help you through it, but you came here to work and we're gonna work. Some people were put back into right back into being five to seven years old in childhood trauma when they were sexually assaulted and they didn't remember that.

[00:43:37] Yeah. Until this ceremony. So you have that suppressed for your entire life. You don't remember, it sounds crazy because unless you're there to witness it, you're like, yeah, that, that's not true. But I've had to perform exorcisms. And I'm like, that's not what I signed up for, but it is, but I didn't see the fine print.

[00:43:57] I didn't see it. [00:44:00] It can get very ugly because you carry these things with you and you might or not know might or might not know that they're there, but I call it seeing with medicine eyes. So not only does the shaman sit with the medicine, because one thing I do want to say is anyone that you sit with.

[00:44:22] If the shaman isn't drinking, then don't drink that just like the shaman or whoever's doing your initial Interview process they are going to ask you questions then ask them questions. Where did the medicine come from? Mm hmm What intentions were put into it and most importantly are you drinking with me?

[00:44:43] And if you're not drinking with me, then why not? Why is it good enough for me, but not for you? So I serve everyone first I'm the last one to drink along with my assistants and that's when everything [00:45:00] changes. We create sacred space first because that, that's never going to change. That was part of my practice before the medicine.

[00:45:06] So all in. Everybody, we create a group of protection and once I drink and everyone else drinks, not only can I see what's going on, but the people drinking can see what's going on as well. So sometimes you're thinking I'm here for myself and you're getting insights and messages for your neighbor. So you do have to sometimes learn how to, I need to have my experience and these are not my feelings because people are very empathic.

[00:45:37] Their things are going to come over and You're going to start to experience that when it's not your own. So can they get ugly that? 100% they can get ugly and this is where the purge comes in but The purge, like this is all one giant ceremony that has many components that [00:46:00] starts the day that she presents herself to you.

[00:46:02] I say she, my mother once you start to suddenly ayahuasca is

[00:46:06] Ashley: everywhere, Facebook,

[00:46:08] Wanda: Instagram, somebody randomly at the coffee shop started talking about it. Now it's all over your feed. That's when it starts, when she starts to call you and she's going to keep calling you until you answer. And then the next part of ceremony is.

[00:46:22] Let me go research. Who am I going to sit with? And then the dieta, the dieta before is probably more important than the ceremony when you drink itself, because you have to take that serious. My husband calls it the no fun diet, but basically no,

[00:46:39] Ashley: no, no, it's no

[00:46:41] Wanda: seasoning, no sugar, no salt, no meat can never have pork ever.

[00:46:47] I'm banned from eating pork. They took all seafood away from me and now steak. So I know that eventually, because that's what's going to happen. They guide you how to respond, how [00:47:00] to act what they will restrict in your life. And let's say, Oh, I love coffee. You don't love it anymore. We're going to make it so it's repulsive.

[00:47:08] So the more you prepare and remove these Western toxins from your body, you're making more space to receive grandmother when you drink. So that's when the other part of ceremony comes in and that's your purge. But your purge is not just vomiting or diarrhea. Sometimes they happen separate. Sometimes they happen at the same time.

[00:47:30] So one thing I tell my people when they come is. Know where your bucket is, your bucket, your best

[00:47:36] Ashley: friend and take it with

[00:47:39] Wanda: you to the bathroom because you you're not gonna be pooping and throwing up in the same Yeah,

[00:47:44] Ashley: yeah, yeah, but perching, oh god

[00:47:48] Wanda: It could be a lot of tearing a lot of yawning a lot of burping Some people laugh some people cry That has many faces just like [00:48:00] face has many faces.

[00:48:00] That doesn't mean I'm going to spray you with my Florida water or so play you. It might need be that you need me to come over and you need me to wipe your tears or give you a hug, or although it sounds weird you might need somebody to lay next to you for a little while and just tell you some pretty things, whatever it is that.

[00:48:19] Holding space looks for but for me when it comes to it being more personal that way. I always ask. Is that okay? Because you don't know if by touching someone just on the shoulder you could trigger that. Yeah trigger a memory Something they don't even know happened to them. So

[00:48:38] Ashley: it's very

[00:48:40] Wanda: Convoluted and then the things that they're battling During ceremony.

[00:48:45] Yeah, because you're gonna see unicorns and rainbows and all that great stuff might have visits from aliens And yeah, all this sounds like we belong in the psych ward for 72 hours, but you'll understand When you drink, but for some [00:49:00] people what she does is she knows you're going to do hard work later Yeah, let's make the first couple ceremonies all about love and light and it's so great and I can't wait to do it again I haven't met too many people that after drinking the first time like during ceremony still will say While still with the medicine, I can't wait to do this again I've only met one person and they changed their mind about that but they came back they but there's a lot of dark things that, that can happen because you have to, you have to release them.

[00:49:32] There's a way of, you know, it's kind of like not really off the subject, but you know, when you're working with like your inner demon or your shadow self, the aspects of yourself that you created and sometimes you don't have to force them out. Why did I create you? Why do What can I do so that you can become my ally?

[00:49:53] What is it that I was when I created you that I can give to you now? Is it love forgiveness compassion [00:50:00] empathy things of that nature those things you can talk out you can help send to the light But these darker demonic things you can't that's yeah, you have to be with someone that knows What they're doing and by no means I'm no expert like this is forever student kind of journey where every time I drink, I learned something new.

[00:50:24] Every new client brings me something new, but you have to be vigilant. You can't have your guard down. You have to create a grid, create boundaries because we want to make sure that anything that one person is releasing, that's not attaching to anyone else that's in the space. So any of the participants, myself, my family, because my church

[00:50:43] Ashley: is on my property.

[00:50:45] So

[00:50:46] Wanda: all these things get sent to the light. I am very big on everything deserves a chance to feel love and to experience that. But sometimes that's, it's not possible because

[00:50:59] Ashley: people carry [00:51:00] really,

[00:51:01] Wanda: really ugly things. And some of these things, their purpose in attaching to you is to take your life, to take your soul and to drag you.

[00:51:10] Drag your soul to hell. That's what they want. I'm feeling suicidal. I want to cut myself. Life is not worth living That's what these lower level entities are all about and they show their face They show their face in ceremony and once I see you you're out of here a lot. It's a lot of work from both ends and people just think I'm gonna come lay down whatever's no You're you're working

[00:51:34] Ashley: They're working.

[00:51:36] You're an employee of Yemayake Spiritual Church. When you get there, your paycheck will be a spiritual enlightenment. That's what you make. You get free breakfast the next day. Oh, and you get free breakfast with your experience. I mean, and I have to tell you guys, Wanda's a really good cook.

[00:51:56] So like, her free breakfast isn't just like... [00:52:00] Some shipwreck, like Wanda's cooking for you, and she's really, really good at cooking. So it's worth it. So yeah, so now you guys have heard all about the experience and actually I wanted to ask you, Wanda, how long does a typical ceremony take?

[00:52:18] Wanda: So we were trained to serve in the dark.

[00:52:22] Mm hmm. So we'll say that I allow people to show up between 6 and 6. 30 p. m. when it's a one nighter, but we also do retreats. So it kind of starts then although you're not technically drinking till later and this is how you ready yourself We do plant babs. We do so plays everybody changes We go in around 8 o'clock to the maloka.

[00:52:45] That's our ceremonial space for plant medicine and we have a nice long talk first Because there's always a mix. Sometimes it's all first timers. Sometimes it's all people coming back. Sometimes it's a mix So if you're coming back and there's first timers [00:53:00] and you just gonna have to hear my talk again we'll talk for about half an hour and I let people know what to expect.

[00:53:07] Make sure everyone has their bucket. Everyone knows where the bathrooms are. I create sacred space that takes about 30 minutes. I like to talk clearly. And then everything is done by candlelight. So there, Because one thing people have to understand is that you become super sensitive to everything.

[00:53:26] So light, sound, everything is going to bother you. So we have the lights on. You wouldn't be able to tolerate that. I call everyone forth by name, one by one, sit down. Do you wish to share your intention? I bless the medicine. I bless the cup after before and after every serving, I give it to the person.

[00:53:46] And the serving can be anywhere between half a cup to a full cup, but I'm pretty good with the dosage and I know where we are. Does it taste good? Absolutely not. If there was a way to [00:54:00] mask the taste that would be great, but you get over that within two minutes It'll be like

[00:54:05] Ashley: you'll be all right So once you

[00:54:08] Wanda: drink Depending on how sensitive you are to it.

[00:54:12] It can take effect within the first 10 to 15 minutes up to an hour Well, you Feel that even though, because you have to go in with an open mind and not expect to have visions. Because if You're missing everything else that's happening. It's, I'm here to experience. It is best to have your eyes closed for the most part.

[00:54:33] And you'll start to feel things, because sometimes they're working on your body. When I say they, it's because grandmother is the bridge. The Kroona are the reason for the journey. And then this is when all of your allies and all of your guides and all of my people, you know, I live on native land. I work very heavily with the natives.

[00:54:54] They're always invited to come in. They share space within my vessel, all spirits of love and light. [00:55:00] So we're all here to do work together. So once all of that starts to kick in, you might see the grid in the building. You might see things walking around. So, let's say I served at 8. 30, 9 o'clock, we're working till about 3 in the morning.

[00:55:17] Sometimes 4, sometimes

[00:55:18] Ashley: 5,

[00:55:21] Wanda: the sun comes up sometimes. By the end of ceremony, most of the people are asleep. So, about an hour and a half to two hours after I serve the first cup, I do light one little tea light. And I ask if anyone would like a second cup. Most people are astral traveling at this point, but some people will say yes, I would like one some will just say no Thank you.

[00:55:44] Some will answer lights go out again. So that's around 1130 midnight Mm hmm, and we keep going. So I sing for a while in the beginning, but because it's just me that was trained I have facilitators that I am [00:56:00] training but they're not comfortable singing yet. Yeah. So I have the most beautiful playlist ever that I share with everyone that comes.

[00:56:07] And we just listen to that because if I'm singing and someone needs my help, now I have to stop singing because I'm the only so it's, it's a, it's a lot of work, but it's becoming a very well oiled machine where everybody knows their role and how to do it. And one thing I tell people. Everyone is going to need help at some point, and that could include the shaman that is serving you.

[00:56:33] Yeah. It could be that the things that I'm helping you clear, now they all collectively want to attack me or whoever is helping me serve to stop me from facilitating. So if you I need to know where my tools are at all times, but there was one night where my husband was there helping me and he goes, do you need your mapacho?

[00:56:54] I was like,

[00:56:55] Ashley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. , he's like, do you need your lighter? I'm like, mm-hmm. . [00:57:00] And he goes, so use it. And I'm like, I can't.

[00:57:04] Wanda: Mm-hmm. So that can happen. So you as the facilitator need to know, do I need help? You know, can I ask for help? And even if I don't ask for it, if you, with your medicine eyes can see that maybe I need a so

[00:57:18] Ashley: play.

[00:57:19] Mm-hmm. , it's

[00:57:19] Wanda: never gonna be an insult where I've had some of my students that have drank with me. I didn't want to step on your shaman toes. I'm like, girl, there's no shaman toes here. We're all in this together. Like, yeah, it's something that I don't see by all means. If you ever feel cold that while my neighbor looks like they need help, should I go help my neighbor?

[00:57:39] You're not going to upset me. You're, you're

[00:57:41] Ashley: helping the collective because

[00:57:43] Wanda: this. It's a collective experience. Sometimes all it takes is one little silly cackle from one person in the corner, and then everyone's laughing for an hour, and it's uncontrollable, you can't stop it. Sometimes it's collective love.

[00:57:57] But everybody will be very [00:58:00] vocal with, Oh, I love all of you, and we've never met before. But it's, it's, it's a very long night, full of a lot of different kinds of purging.

[00:58:11] Ashley: A lot of love. A lot of hugging. It's, it's

[00:58:15] Wanda: very personal. We always tell people bring a change of clothes because you never know.

[00:58:20] All our mattresses do have covers on them. But if you are that person, Oh, well, we have access to the shower. But you you're supported and you're not just supported by the facilitators. You're also here. Support it by your group. And that's the thing when people go to look for someone that's gonna serve them.

[00:58:40] Who's helping you? Mm hmm, you know because it's it's very important It's very personal and there's people out there that just want to take your money and Oh permanent psychosis possibility. You'll be okay No, it's it's not okay. It's irresponsible like mm hmm any facilitator that [00:59:00] tells you Oh, I know you need your mental health meds, but stop taking them for a month so I could get your little 300 and, you know, then you're impaired forever.

[00:59:10] No, I'm not your prescriber and it is grossly irresponsible. You want to know how close is a medical facility to where you are? Are the people that you're with, are they medically trained? Does anybody know CPR? Is there a first aid kit? I'm, I've been an EMT for over 20 years. I was

[00:59:30] Ashley: about to say, I was like, you're the perfect person for this.

[00:59:32] You're an EMT.

[00:59:34] Wanda: So there's a lot that goes on. And it's also, once I close ceremony, you might go into your own ceremony all by yourself. Maybe three or four more where it's eight in the morning. I'm like, come on, guys, we're going to go have breakfast and you're still traveling. So I have to make sure before you go.

[00:59:53] So let's give it 12 hours, but you're not in it, in it. Yeah, yeah. But you're not allowed to leave. You're turning your phone in, you're [01:00:00] turning your keys in, and you're not, you need to let someone know that you're there. Mm hmm. Not leaving, because some people can get very paranoid and, Oh, I'm sequestered.

[01:00:08] I've been kidnapped. People are trying to kill me. And you're not running off where I live. I live in the middle of the woods. You'll run right back but we want to make sure that you eat the morning after and it's still an ayahuasca diet but want to make sure that you're well fed and that you're connected because she's going to stay with you long after ceremony is over.

[01:00:30] Like those next three, four or five days after you're technically still in ceremony, but it's doing her, there's no more shaman, there's no more people. And this is when you start to integrate. And that's a big thing, integration. Who are you going to talk to? Yeah. After, because I'll be honest, like when I came back although I'm super connected to all you girls, you know, my shaman sisters, you know, you've all had many, many experiences.

[01:00:57] All you girls could do was really listen to all my crazy [01:01:00] stories because you don't have a, you don't have a frame of reference unless you drink. And we might all drink at the same time and have completely different experiences, but at least we had an experience of some kind. So. You can't really relate.

[01:01:14] You can, but you can't. So we met for a lay person who doesn't have spiritual friends. Who are they supposed to talk to? Yeah. Yeah. Integration is very important. Just like you said that having a professional, you know, psychiatrist, psychologist, you know, therapist, counselors, it's just as important to have someone help you with integration.

[01:01:36] That's something that we offer for free. You want to chat and talk and text or call? I love talking. So it's never a bother because you need to talk to someone during a very important but they actually do have like certified plant medicine integration coaches that that's all that they do.

[01:01:54] They're just saying, yeah, there's all sorts. Like this is a big, well oiled [01:02:00] machine where there's so many people that. Have their hands in it and not in a commercialized. We're here to make money. No, these are people and that's what you want to look for People that have taken the journey Because I could talk to you about how great it is all I want But if I've never drank then who am I

[01:02:18] Ashley: to tell you that you want people that

[01:02:20] Wanda: have been in the mix that have done The work they purge just like you purge and guess what during ceremony the shaman will purge as well and Like everything that'll happen to a participant can and will happen to the shaman We just know how to deal with it better because if I'm singing and I throw up, I'll just sing when I'm done throwing up.

[01:02:37] We saw it with our maestro in the jungle. We always wondered, well, what happens if he has to throw up during? And then we saw it. We're like, oh,

[01:02:44] Ashley: okay. He's like, bleh. And then he's like, da da da. And I do have to say, I have not drank, but I have heard you sing the songs, like when we did ceremony. It's so [01:03:00] beautiful.

[01:03:00] We weren't in a proper ayahuasca ceremony when I've heard you sing, but even I was like, wow. Like, it makes you feel, it really, really hits you. Like, it really makes you feel good. And, it's not just because Wanda's a good singer. The way she's singing, her movements, you can see, You can see spirit just like running through her.

[01:03:19] It's very, very, very, very cool. Very cool.

[01:03:22] Wanda: One day we'll hold your spot!

[01:03:25] Ashley: One day! I feel like I'm Okay, so everybody, just so you know Wanda's been trying to get me to drink for a while. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm a control freak. I can't do this. I feel like I'm getting closer. Our other shaman sister, Kirsten, did it and she was telling me about her experiences and that sounded so cool and I was like, Man, I know, I'm obviously open to all of this, but I'm, like, very, I'm somebody who, I know myself, if I drink too much, I need to know where the bread is, and I need to know where the water is, because I need to get myself undrunk quickly.

[01:03:58] I need that kind of [01:04:00] control, so. I know that it would be super great for me to let go of that, and I, one day I'm, I know I'm gonna do it one day. I wrote, I was actually thinking about this the other day, I don't know when that day will be, I feel like it'll be sooner than later, but it's gonna happen.

[01:04:14] I'm completely

[01:04:15] Wanda: shocked, but I'm, I think what would be best would be probably to come, we don't open that to anyone. Huh. To just come. Observe and help hold space because you don't need to drink to connect to spirit. You're always talking to spirit. So just for you to observe, because you know, not to share part of person's story, but she helped hold space once before she ever drank and she was gone.

[01:04:46] Like you would have thought that she drank three cups and she didn't drink anything, but because she's connected to spirit. And you're within the sacred space, and the medicine, she was able to go take off and do her own work, [01:05:00] and she drank nothing.

[01:05:01] Ashley: So. Yeah, maybe we'll do that. That is a good idea.

[01:05:05] Well, this has been a great conversation about everything ayahuasca.

[01:05:09] Okay. That was awesome. Thank you for explaining all of that and sharing all of that, Wanda, I really appreciate it. Okay. So. We're gonna get to our story time, and I was like. I like to do a story time with a story I've never heard. We are doing another tragic love story, which I'm super excited about.

[01:05:26] I love a beautiful tragic love story. And this tale is from Wanda's native land of Puerto Rico. And I was like, this is great. This is a Taino slash Puerto Rican folktale, which is pretty fun. Okay, so this is the tale of... You guys know I'm terrible at pronunciations, but I'm doing my best. Solomay and Aruaca, that's what we're calling them.

[01:05:48] So, ahem. Once upon a time, there was a guy named Don Julian. Don Julian had a very, very pretty daughter, and her name was Salome. One day, Salome was riding [01:06:00] her horse to go to the Abacoa River for a daily walk. But this day, Her father was like you should probably go with this guy Juan and the reason he was saying that was because Don Julian really wanted Salome to marry Juan and Juan came from a really rich family and it would be good for her family.

[01:06:20] She was like fine, whatever I don't really like Juan, but that's fine. So she went with With Juan they walked down to the river and Salome looked in the river and she saw this really pretty flower And it was floating on the river. So she leaned over and tried to get it and all of a sudden she slipped She fell into the river

[01:06:36] It was a really swift current It was really like it was crazy. She's being knocked around. She's yelling Juan help me Juan, help me! And Juan did not help her, because he was way too afraid to go into the river. So, now Salome's being bounced around in this river, she thinks she's gonna die, and she's freaking out.

[01:06:55] All of a sudden... She sees, through the water, and her [01:07:00] eyes are getting splashed. She sees this beautiful, bronze, copper thing, and she doesn't know what it is. But then she sees a hand, and it's grabbing for her. She grabs the hand, and this man pulls her up onto the riverbank. So she's like, oh my god, thank you so much for saving me, who are you?

[01:07:18] And he's like, oh, I'm Araruka. And I am one of the last hyena warriors. I'm the son of Yuriel Korn and Cecilia. And she's like, Okay, Araruka, you're also really hot. This is great. .. Arruka was like, let me walk you home. Juan's long gone. He ran away. He was scared.

[01:07:38] So, Arruka was like, let me walk you home. So, he starts walking her home. Because Salome is like, oh my god, I'm gonna tell everybody about how you saved me. So, they're walking home, and all of a sudden, I guess people from the town see Salome walking with this guy, they start shooting at him. And even Don Julian, her dad, [01:08:00] is trying to shoot at Aruqua, but Salome gets in between them and she's like, hey, stop, he saved me today.

[01:08:07] Without him I'd be dead, so you guys have to stop. And stupid ass Juan ran away, so, I mean, chill out. So they're like, okay, fine, fine, fine. Aruqua was like, you know what, I don't want to cause any more problems, let me just leave. So he walks away. And Salome was super sad and because she was like, I think I'm in love with this guy, as one is after a guy saves your life, I guess you're in love with him now.

[01:08:32] So Salome was like, I'm gonna go back to the river. So she goes back the next day, and he's not there, but she goes back a day later, and he is there, and she's so excited. Now after that, they decided that they were going to... meet there every day. The more that Aruka and Salome met up, they realized that they, number one, were in love and they loved each other, but they also realized that their worlds were completely different.

[01:08:59] Salome [01:09:00] is from A long line of Spaniard Conquistador families, and Araruga, like he said, he's one of the last Taino warriors, and he's like, your family's never gonna accept me. And Salome's like, you know what, I honestly don't care, because I'm in love with you, and you saved me, and you're amazing, and I keep talking to you, and you're the best.

[01:09:19] So they keep meeting up. So one day, her dad, Don Julian, he's like, I gotta figure out where Salome is going every day. So he follows her one day, he goes down to the river, he sees her with Arruca, and he takes out his gun and he shoots, cause he's gonna shoot Arruca. What happens? He actually shoots Salome.

[01:09:41] So Salome is on the ground, she's fatally wounded. Don Julian is on the other side of the river, freaking out. But Arruka grabs Salome, and he's like, I know exactly what to do. He carries her all the way up these cliffs to an altar that he has. for [01:10:00] his native spirits, carries her to the altar.

[01:10:03] He knows that if he can get her up there and pray to his ancestors that they'll save her. He also takes healing waters from the cave that they're in and places them all over her chest and he starts to pray over her and invite his ancestors. All of a sudden she's completely healed by the waters and everything is okay.

[01:10:27] Salome is amazed and she's like, I cannot believe that you saved my life. I would have died. I was shot. So Salome's like, me and you need to go to my dad and we need to tell him what happened. So Aruka's like, okay, but I actually want you to stay here and rest. I will go tell your dad. And she's like, okay, fine.

[01:10:46] So Aruka goes to tell Salome's dad. Now, remember, Salome's dad, Don Julian, has no idea that Salome is still alive. He thinks she's dead. Oh, the last time he saw her, she got shot in the [01:11:00] chest, and she's being dragged off by this guy. So as soon as he sees Aruka, he shoots him in the chest, and Aruka dies on the spot.

[01:11:09] Meanwhile, Salome is still in the cave that she was in in the first place, praying for Aruka to come back. The story says that she lived and waited for a hundred and fifty years. For Arua to get back and on 150 years, and one day she died from a broken heart and she said, they said that she didn't even eat the whole time because she was fed by the memory of her beloved and the miraculous spring water from the cave.

[01:11:41] So then they say now that in the darkest corridors of the cave, that Solame and Arka walk together forever and they're happy. In the spirit world. Another tragic love story, but you guys know I love a tragic love story But, they're together in the end! So everything's actually [01:12:00] fine. And we love it. I've told a separate love story like this from Myanmar, Where like, the ending was the two people were dead.

[01:12:08] I have to say, people will be like, Oh, this is, like, the other story, They're like, that's the Asian Juliet. I think people could say, this is the... Puerto Rican Romeo and Juliet. This story is actually better than Romeo and Juliet. Both of these stories were. So I just wanna, I don't like to call them that.

[01:12:22] Because Romeo and Juliet pales in comparison. To these stories. They're much better. Yeah, but that's our tale for the week, everybody. Hope you enjoyed that short but cute tale. And this brings us to the end of the show. So Wanda, I would love for you to tell us where we can find you, where people can find your church, where people can find your ceremonies.

[01:12:43] Just, just, just tell us. Let the people know. So,

[01:12:47] Wanda: mostly, although I have a website, I'm mostly on Facebook and Instagram and the handle is at Yemaya. Moon, spiritual church. And we post most of our [01:13:00] ceremonies as stories on Instagram just because of the legalities of it. Yes, we are a church. Yes, we are protected by, you know, the second amendment and freedom of religion.

[01:13:12] But it's not Facebook event about our next ceremony. We don't, we don't really do that. On either one of the handles on social media it gives you links to our website, but like I said, we don't really use it and everyone that inquires, you can always send us an email or a text message all the information is on my profiles, and that's how we start.

[01:13:33] We start with dialogue, and, you know, we, we shoot you over the application, it's 49 questions, and then we go from there. And we're located in New, in New Jersey where we had the church space in the Maloca built on our private homestead. So we're literally up on our own mountain and you can't see the house or any of the ceremonial spaces from the road.

[01:13:55] We're all way, way up covered by trees. So it's, it's super [01:14:00] private. No one's ever going to know that you're here. And, you know, we're just surrounded by a beautiful grid of native energy. It's super protected. Just beautiful and we invite everyone that's curious if even if you don't want to drink and you just want to chat and feel Free to send us a message Whoo

[01:14:16] Ashley: hoo, she's right.

[01:14:18] She literally lives on a mountain, everybody. I've been to her house several times. She literally lives, you can't see from the road. It's even kind of hard to find your house, like, with a GPS. I only know now because I've been there a few times. But thank you, Wanda, all the links, like I said if you want to get in touch with Wanda or even ask questions, Wanda is one of the kindest people, she'll always answer your questions you can email her, like she said, she loves to chit chat she, she's just a great person, so if you have any questions about Ayahuasca, or if you're thinking about anything and you want to talk to somebody, she's your gal.

[01:14:52] Yeah, so I just want to thank everybody for being here. Thank you for listening this week. Again, this is [01:15:00] Dine with the Divine. Follow us on whatever social apps you have. Well, I only have Facebook. You can follow me on Facebook, you can follow me on Instagram, you can follow me on TikTok. I'm at DimeWithTheDivine on each of those.

[01:15:13] And also, if you want to give us a rating, that's always super helpful. And I really appreciate it. And if you have any questions or comments, feel free to email me at Dine with the Divine pod@gmail.com. And if you wanna follow me, Ashley, I'm at Sankofa hss, SS A N K O F A H S on Instagram, and I'm Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook.

[01:15:38] So thank you so much everybody. I hope you have a really wonderful rest of your week and see you next time. Bye

[01:15:47] Wanda: bye-bye.