Christian Witchcraft, Early Christianity and a Medieval Genius with Sara Raztresen

Sara R

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi everybody. Welcome to Diamond With and Divine. I'm Ashley, your host, and today we're gonna be talking about today and every day we talk about the mystical, magical, and all that good stuff. So on today's episode, we're gonna talk a little bit about some Christian mystics. And a medieval genius.

[00:00:23] Hi everybody. I hope you're having a great week, and if you're not, I hope it gets much better. So today we have a fabulous guest, Sarah Ra. Okay. I already messed it up. I just practiced it and I messed it up. Sarah, can you say your last name?

[00:00:37] Sara: Don't say Absolutely. Yeah. My name is Sarah

[00:00:39] Ashley: Mason.

[00:00:39] Okay, thank you. Oh my gosh. I was like, I'm the worst person. No, you just told me. I practiced it once or twice, and then I was like, whoop. Went right out my head. Okay. No, it's,

[00:00:48] Sara: it's a tongue twister. It's a little yes.

[00:00:50] Ashley: I like it though. Sarah Rest. Jason is a Sloven American writer, Christian Witch and graduate of Emerson's College, popular fiction [00:01:00] and publishing MFA program.

[00:01:02] She has short stories, nonfiction, and poems published across several online literary magazines and her debut novel, the Glass Witch explores a personal theme that mark her own life. Struggles of cultural identity, religious misinterpretation, and self-determination.

[00:01:20] As a daughter of an immigrant raised with one foot in two worlds and a person drawn to all things mystical and strange, Sarah draws on her cultural heritage and religious experiences, blend them with the fantasy of her work. Her writing is an attempt to explain the world she sees, deliver the insight she gathers, and discover how all the world's pieces fit together.

[00:01:43] Okay, Sarah, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm okay. Thank you for being here today. Yeah. One of the ways that I saw you on the internet and I saw your content is you talk a lot about being a Christian witch and.

[00:01:58] That's something [00:02:00] that I think a lot of people either will be like, that's not a thing. Or they'll say what? Yeah, what, yeah. And I know like when I was so when I was younger I was like, I feel like you and I are on a super wavelength, and I've said this a million times here. I really love everything religious, anything mystical.

[00:02:20] So I always was like, okay, like I am not like super Catholic, but I also like, enjoy this. So I remember reading a lot about , oh, could I be a Christian witch?

[00:02:31] I didn't end up connecting so much to it, but I liked reading a lot about. People who were experiencing it. And this is like going back, I'm old, so this is going back when I was like a teenager, like 20 years ago when you could find no information, like very little information on the internet about this.

[00:02:48] And there was like one book by a lady, I think she's a Canadian woman who wrote a book and I read that book. It's the Path of the Christian, which I think it's, yeah, okay. Yeah. Very popular one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I read [00:03:00] that book and I was like, okay, cool. But that was the only book and there was this other lady, one website that was a million years old.

[00:03:08] I think it was like on a zenga server or something. And she was like talking about how to astral travel, but she, I was like, oh, that's pretty cool cuz she likes Jesus when she astral travels. So this was always something that was in my head for a long time, especially when I was a teenager.

[00:03:22] Cause I was like, I think this is what I'm supposed to do. I don't know, but. I love that now. I was like, oh, I've seen you and a few other people talk about it. That's so cool. Look, they're bringing that, for people who wanna explore that side. And I find that, anyway, I'm talking too much.

[00:03:38] I'm gonna talk to you now. That's what

[00:03:41] Sara: It's a mood though. It's a mood. I do the same thing. I'm like, oh, wait a minute.

[00:03:46] Ashley: I'm like, this is not about me. So what brought you to this path? That's my first main

[00:03:51] Sara: question. Yeah. Honestly as a kid my, so for one thing, right? Again, my mom is from Europe and there's a lot of really fun folk tales and all this stuff.

[00:03:59] But [00:04:00] she herself has always been like, I remember growing up we had Amy Brown, like watercolor fairies, and she had all the little statues of like woodland creatures and angels and this and that. And then my dad was also super, imaginative, super fun, adventurous. And it just developed me into being like a really weird kid who liked really weird things.

[00:04:16] And I remember being a kid watching Naruto, seeing them like do all this fancy ninja stuff. I was like, this is cool. So I'm like 10 and I'm going around. Trying to Google how to do Naruto chakra hand signs, like goofy things like this. And eventually, somehow one or another I stumbled across like spells of magic.com.

[00:04:34] And you can't tell the 10 year old that she can make spells to speed up time and change the weather. You'd this has just unlocked. No, that's all we're gonna do now. Oh yeah. I had a notebook. I was like, I'm the most powerful wizard in the world. Like it was. It was a lot, but just the concept that like magic could be a thing that is possible in the real world, like delighted me.

[00:04:53] But then I found Wiki, and while it was fun and cool, I, something about it just had me like, I don't like this. You know [00:05:00] what I mean? I was like, what do you mean the goddess like gives birth to the God and then the God dies, and then she like reper. Like that. I don't know, for some reason that connected like 0%.

[00:05:08] So I was like, I, but I like God though. Like God's pretty cool. So I remember at one point like God's cool. I've known it my whole life. I feel I don't really see what his problem is with this. So I literally, I remember one day like praying and being like, why do you have an issue with people using basil to heal somebody like that?

[00:05:24] Doesn't, that doesn't make sense. And one, eventually my answer was all of a sudden I kept stumbling upon every single possible idea. Translations of the Bible, this sat up and down where God's basically saying to me like, I don't have a problem with it. Y'all are just a mess.

[00:05:39] You know what I mean? So I was like, ok. I was like, that's fair. But yes. This was I think about 10, 12 years ago now. Maybe how old am I? Jesus. Yeah. 12, 14 years ago where I was like, okay how do I learn about this? But of course, as you said, there's no resources on it. There was no books, there was no nothing.

[00:05:57] I found a couple that were like, I. Basically [00:06:00] just memoir. And I was like, great. That's cool. And this is actually my not the shameless pluck, but this is why a friend of mine, a friend of mine and I, we are working together on a comprehensive, like introductory book to Christian witchcraft that's gonna release march 1st, 2024. And that's where, for me, it's what I was missing, which is like the scholarship, that biblical scholarship, the cultural knowledge, like the understanding. Cuz as time went on, I started to realize oh, you can't operate religion without magic. That's, yeah. Like that's what religion is.

[00:06:31] It's like bootleg therapy and state ordained magic. What do you mean? So I was like, hold on, wait a minute. As I kept researching, I kept, a lot of the times I was also very concerned with social justice too. Especially as I started realizing that the world is messed up as a teen.

[00:06:44] And I was like, hold on. So anytime someone mentioned like, God, I got the ick because they were usually people who were like, yeah, really awful people. Yeah. And I was like, don't talk about God when you are doing like using God's name to do all this stuff and support [00:07:00] these policies that hurt people.

[00:07:01] Like no. Yes. Yeah. But it went hand in hand, like this whole social justice, like religion magic being a way to get that autonomy and that personal agency back. And it was a big hodgepodge of stuff. I remember as a team being really interested more in The crystals and the spells and the aesthetic.

[00:07:18] And now that I'm older, it's very much no, tell me about what Paul really said about women, because it wasn't any of the shit y'all say it is. So it is and sorry for my language, but No, you can curse as much you want. Good, good. Because I was like, I can't express my frustration about people's mistranslations of Paul with that.

[00:07:36] But so now it's like I'm at the point where I call myself a Christian witch very much as a political misnomer. I can tell who someone is by how they react to that. If they start throwing the whole book at me and going Wild. Then I'm like, okay, you are not ready, you are not ready to have this conversation.

[00:07:52] But if they're curious and they're open about it, I'm like, okay, cool. I can maybe explain to this person like a little bit of what I do and they won't like totally flip out.[00:08:00]

[00:08:01] Ashley: Yeah. I, it's and I was talking about this with one of our other guests. She's a pastor, but she's also like very into social justice and different things, and she's very progressive. But we were talking about There was because of control issues, right? There's been a very big shift from Jesus time when people were mixed up in the spiritual actual part of it.

[00:08:24] What this means and like how can I be a better person and live a better life? And now because of control and colonialism and all this other bullshit, people have now used Christianity basically only a way to suppress people. And it, and then everybody thinks it's only about rules.

[00:08:42] Everything is about rule. And I can't, and we don't even say this just for Christianity, but we can say this for the major religions. Islam too, a big thing, right? It's all about control and like this and that one, originally Islam was super progressive when it came to women.

[00:08:58] It was super [00:09:00] like, Do whatever you want. Oh, actually, if somebody else, if you meet somebody, you tell them about Islam, they don't wanna be a Muslim. That's no problem. That's literally it's not a big deal. But people change interpretations and different things to make it now about a control issue.

[00:09:14] And I think it's sad because a, all of these paths, no matter what you think of them, all these paths were meant to enlighten people and give them a freedom, right? For their life. To make them feel better, not to make everybody around them sad. So I think it's interesting the way that you look at things, because I feel like that's the way it was supposed to be.

[00:09:37] Sara: Yeah. And this is where it's very it's very frustrating for me and other people in my community because Right away you can tell that the biblical literacy a lot of these Christians have is atrocious. Hello? Oh God, it's so bad. And I don't know, because they don't really read it cover to cover.

[00:09:52] They just they have those little bibles for women that are a goosebumps pick your own adventure and you just kinda, you like, you just, today's John tomorrow's exit is yes. I [00:10:00] was like, what the, what are we doing? So I don't know. I also noticed a lot of people seem to join this religion because they think it already backs up the stupid things they believe.

[00:10:10] Yeah. They're like, oh, I'm already like super hardcore anti-people, so this religion is great. And I'm like, wow. How did you, okay. Interesting. So I've lost friendships because of that. Not because they don't like, I do witch stuff, but because I don't like that they're using the name of my God to justify Awful things.

[00:10:26] Yeah. And I'm like, Hey have you read this fucking thing? Because what do you mean? So I don't know, but all that aside, yeah. For me it's that's why I say Christian witch is very political term because it's there's a line in the Bible, I believe it's in first Corinthians 1 27, I think where Paul is the wises are shamed by the fools, right?

[00:10:44] God uses the weak to shame the strong and the fools to shame the wise. And I'm like, this is the era of the witch shaming the priest, right? This is the era of the fringe shaming the establishment. Because this is become such a mess and. Yeah. All these things about control that were never meant to be there.

[00:10:57] I'm reading I'm in the Chaplain Z cohort with the [00:11:00] order of St. Hildegard. And a lot of the work we do is discovering all of these different parts of Christianity that have been suppressed. Things that were never put in the canonical gospels. All these other things. Yeah. How it like lines up socially.

[00:11:09] Oh, we just wrote a book called Jesus and John Wayne, that like I had to take several breaks because my blood pressure was through the roof every like 20 pages. Cuz it details how this like super mega evangelical nightmare like, started and how it got us to where we are. So it's so painful.

[00:11:25] And so for us it's really about a personal relationship with God. Understanding those esoteric mysteries. Building ourselves as people. Cause that's what, as you said, that's what religion's meant to do is Yeah. Empower, find some freedom. Not worry so much about things that are out of your control.

[00:11:40] Again, it's like a, it's like a therapy tube. You understand now why it is people didn't have therapists. They had, they go to church and have be told nice things for a little bit. Yeah. That's what it was. The fact that it's been used, the way it's been used is ridiculous. And we're trying to bring God's name out of whatever mud pile it got stuck in.

[00:11:59] Ashley: Oh [00:12:00] my God. I love that. Jesus and John Wayne, I'm definitely gonna put a link to that in the show notes cuz I would love to read that book. It's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. I'm sure. You know what? And I think, and I, you can probably understand this too, but so my my dad is from Ghana and my mom is from England, but her whole family's from Jamaica.

[00:12:20] These are two places that were colonized by the British and I think sometimes, Like the, especially West Africans, the way they have a F, like the way that they put Christianity on them to make them now think that like everything before that was bad is just and the way that nobody like seems to notice, it's insane to me.

[00:12:40] I'm just like, cause they'll be like, they'll be like, we have to prosecute these quote unquote witches. Before these people were the people you went to when you had a problem. But now they're bad people. And I'm like, so are you guys saying that my, all my great-great grandparents were bad people?

[00:12:55] Cuz I don't seem to, I mean I think they were fine then. Like [00:13:00] I don't think anybody had a problem. Not I think it was okay. But I'm like, and I don't have a problem with everybody. If you wanna be Christian and you wanna shout Jesus' name every Sunday, go ahead. That's not a problem. But the way that sometimes, especially in many places around the world, Where, which pretty much every place because every place had an indigenous belief, before Christianity or whatever.

[00:13:24] Was so indoctrinated and the way that they made these people who indoctrinated us, made us all hate Other things that were like, are a part of our past is insane. And it's like nobody notices. I'm just,

[00:13:39] Sara: yeah, no, this is this is where it's so crazy. We could see this more in the modern times, like in places like Ghana, like Latin America, where thank God, like a lot of people have still held onto their indigenous things and they've hidden it under stuff. Europe's in a situation where we're talking back in the Roman Empire that this was happening. Yes. It's so old at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like a lot of people literally don't [00:14:00] understand that Christianity is not native to this continent.

[00:14:04] So they'll be acting like, ha my family was never Pagan. I'm like, Jimmy, you are Serbian. I know. I don't know how to tell you this. So it's all these things and I don't know, you get a lot of, again, lack of historical education with people not realizing that it's not that Christians stole things from cultures, but it's that, syncretism Yeah.

[00:14:21] Things they mesh together. Cultures try to preserve stuff like Italian folk. Magic is very much Roman polytheism. Yeah. Blended with Catholic faith. It's so very clear, but they won't say that there's a lot of people that, even though they're very obviously doing magic, they still won't use the word witch because that meant like a bad thing.

[00:14:37] For Slovenia we have we have the word, which is like an actual sorcerers witch, and we have the Chaa, which is like a folk healer. And so up to the 1960s, people were accusing each other of witchcraft. And so it was like Yugoslavia, like it was communist Yugoslavia. And there was this case brought to the judge for slander cuz this lady was like, this guy will not shut his goddamn mouth.

[00:14:58] And so [00:15:00] everyone was like, are you seriously accusing this lady of witchcraft in 1960, whatever? And the guy was like, my crops are dead and it's her fault. So it was like, they still going with this and they just don't understand that there's different kinds of magic that like, yes your crops might have just died cuz the weather sucks.

[00:15:13] But says stuff, it's old school, like Slovenian folklore, folk magic. There's all these folk figures and that's where one place where you can find a lot of like cultural old stuff is like in the folk tales. So like we have like gold horn, right? He's the king of white fairies.

[00:15:29] He's a goat with golden horns. Yeah. It's, and there's a big story, but he's definitely much a minor god, like in Soia. So that's why it's like you guys you have statues of this goat, but you don't understand that. This is obviously a Pagan co.

[00:15:40] Ashley: Come on. I know. That's just like my tribe in where we're from in Ghana is we have a whole story about a golden stool that falls from the sky.

[00:15:51] And that encompasses all of our souls. And if anybody takes it. Like we're gonna, we started a whole war about this. Like we, there's [00:16:00] literally literature like the British, we started a whole war with them. Our queen mother had to get involved. It was a serious issue. But then we're like, yeah, but we don't believe in any of that magic stuff.

[00:16:10] I'm like, what art? My soul is apparently in a golden school, but we don't believe that fell from the sky, but we don't believe in it. Okay, cool. No problem. Have you ever,

[00:16:19] Sara: first of all, the second of all, have you ever noticed how Christians take for granted the ridiculousness of all theism? Yes.

[00:16:28] You'll be like, like I've seen so many of them be like the Greek gods are just myths. They're just stories. But let me tell you about how Jonah sat in the belly of a fish for three days, and I'm like,

[00:16:39] Ashley: I'm like, and like most, I can never say this, right? Methuselah was 900 years old and it's not a big deal.

[00:16:47] I'm like, it's not, are you sure?

[00:16:49] Sara: Yeah. What do you, so I, I remember reading records from Julian, the apostate, the Emperor of Rome, who 2000 years ago, was like, we understand that our mythology is mythology. [00:17:00] Why do you guys insist that everything that happened in your text is liberal? And like totally factual, like I'm saying, but so yeah they'll take for granted the fact that believing in a, an invisible entity that controls all of the universe is pretty crazy no matter which religion it comes from.

[00:17:16] What do you mean? So when people are like, we don't believe in magic and stuff, and then they're like telling these kinds of stories and they're also like going to church and doing the lay on hands and exorcisms, hello. Yeah, I'm just sitting here on my way. I had someone on my Patreon recently, they popped on and they said, Oh my God, I grew up in a charismatic church and I just realized that everything we were doing was magic.

[00:17:39] And I'm like, congratulations, you did it. So I was like, yeah, yep. No, but you get told that No, it's gifts of the spirit. And I goes, so you don't know until you actually look at what modern witchcraft is. And then you realize, wait, there are some pretty direct parallels. There'll be, but you'll never discover that if you just stay like on this kind of [00:18:00] very charismatic, evangelical side because no one's gonna admit that it's magic.

[00:18:04] Exactly. Exactly.

[00:18:07] Ashley: Which you're like, I just, and then you watch like you said, these charismatic churches. There's one guy, I mean I know he's faking it, but it's funny, like there's this one guy and I'm like slightly obs, I'm I'm not obsessed, but it's like one of my weird things that I go down a rabbit hole every month is like finding out how much pastors make.

[00:18:26] Cuz I love that. So I went. Yeah, I love finding out you make a million dollars a month for no reason, but that's okay. And your church does nothing for the community. It's fine. But yeah. Oh my God. I know. So it's fine. But there's this guy in South Africa and he's a pastor and he has one of these churches, he's doing all these miracles and it's just funny.

[00:18:46] And like he gets these quote unquote witches who come in and then they confess, and then everybody's oh my God. And then he throws them to the ground with this magical force in his hand, and I'm just like, what is happening? And they're like, oh, he [00:19:00] healed her. He's just a, he's just a messenger of the Lord.

[00:19:03] And another thing, sorry, it just popped into my head. I like briefly dated this guy. He was completely insane. I'm so glad he's gone. But he he had come over my, I know he's completely insane. So glad, I think he's in another country, thank God. He came to my house one time and he saw I have all these books about like tarot and different spiritual stuff.

[00:19:25] And he was like, oh my God. What are you into? And I was like, I don't know. I read cards sometimes and that's cool. And I do other stuff and I like help people like, oh my God. Yeah. So he's oh my God, it's so bad. Meanwhile, he somehow, this is why I say it's crazy, I'm pretty sure he stole some type of picture or took a picture of me, took it to the prophet quote in his church who told him all these things about me.

[00:19:53] And I was like, and they were true. So I was like, pardon? So I'm a weird, crazy person cuz I read [00:20:00] cards. But you're taking my picture to a prophet who's telling you about my family history that you don't know? I'm confused.

[00:20:10] Sara: Yeah, it's weird much, it's very much a rules for the not for me kind of situation.

[00:20:14] Yes. And that's why I'm like, hold on, wait. So this guy can just like deceit. This guy can get messages from God and that's fine. But I get messages from God and I use my cool card stock with pictures on them and now we're all upset. He like the amount of people who have been like these tarot cards, they're portals of demonic.

[00:20:31] And I'm like, it's a picture on a card stuck.

[00:20:36] Ashley: Have you ever read a book? Is it pretty much the thing I'm

[00:20:40] Sara: always is solitaire like not a thing in your house? Is game night canceled? Because I could take your deck of playing cards and do the same thing. I know. So what are you talking about?

[00:20:47] Oh, and again, proof that people, they're, I don't know. I've had people say, you can't read the Bible the way you are with like, all the magic stuff because then you'll read it wrong. And I'm like, okay. So Leviticus 14, where we're like [00:21:00] killing birds and dipping 'em in blood and sprinkling 'em around.

[00:21:02] I'm just supposed to read that as like a Tuesday. That's just pharmaceutical. What do you mean? So I don't know these people, I'm always like, guys, do you understand that? Like it's the same road, like two different roads to the same thing. Yeah. And they never do.

[00:21:16] That's all it is. Yeah. They never do. Like of course. Yeah. You mean if we wanna talk about it yeah, sure. I can just, I don't need the, that's another thing you say, they come in, they're like, you don't need all these things. I'm like, yeah. I. Do you need the makeup on your face? Do you need like the fun trinket you just got from Target on your six target run?

[00:21:30] Ashley: No, but you like it. And that's not a problem. It's,

[00:21:33] Sara: it's like they're fun they're too little tools. And also I'm just also am would you tells would these people tell someone with ADHD to not have their medication or like their fidget toys or anything? That's the sad part probably.

[00:21:45] Actually I, yeah. I can't even say, they probably would be like, you just need to pray. No, sometimes people have an attention deficit sorter and they need something to stimulate that. I'm that way where it's I'll get distracted real easy when I'm trying to meditate, but if I got the cards, I look back down, oh, now I remember what we're doing.

[00:21:59] [00:22:00] That's how I am too. Yeah, it's it's just, it's one of those things and it's like, why are you all so upset that some people like, make things easier for themselves? Really Is this,

[00:22:09] Ashley: I really don't understand. And then I don't, I also, and you talked about this before, too, literacy. Also, the thing that I don't understand why nobody remembers is that everything that we read, if you read something in the Bible, it's been translated like a million times, depending which version you read.

[00:22:27] Unless it's the ancient Greek, which you don't speak like not even Greek people speak that, yep. Yeah. So I'm like, if you haven't, I'm not saying you can't take something from it, but I am saying take it with a grain of salt because it's been filtered to mad people. King James was super homophobic because he was probably gay, so there's a, so he like added his own sprinkle on it, he's by the way, say that we gay people are bad.

[00:22:51] Sara: No. Yeah. And another thing, yeah. So as you're saying, like you could still read the Bible and get plenty out of it even if you don't speak these languages, but Yeah. What I not, I'm always [00:23:00] baffled by the flack I get for reading books about the Bible.

[00:23:02] They're like, why are you reading books about the Bible and not the Bible? I'm like, because reading this sentence doesn't beam 4,000 years of cultural context history and language in my head. I exactly what do you mean? So then they'll be like you're just twisting it. Because I'm like, no, I'm, this is literally the word.

[00:23:19] This is the context. This is what was going on. And they're like but the Bible says, Oh my god. So it's please, the Bible doesn't say that. You just can't

[00:23:28] Ashley: read. Just admit it. We can help you. There's many programs, right? Like every

[00:23:35] Sara: time it's I dunno if you've seen like prior to the Caribbean, right?

[00:23:37] Where Elizabeth Burns all the wrong and so this for a smoke signal. Yeah. And he's flipping. I was like, why is the rum gone? And she explains in depth why the rum is gone. And he just blinks at her and is like, why is the rum gone? That's the same conversation I have with these people every single time.

[00:23:50] And I'm just like, okay, have a good day,

[00:23:52] Ashley: exactly. And cultural context is so insanely important and nobody seems to care. That bothers me too, cuz it's like you said, this [00:24:00] is stuff that happened thousands of years ago and some of it is allegory. It's not all like this is exactly what happened right moment to moment.

[00:24:10] Some of it is a story. Explaining something, and it may have not literally happened. So we have to, and I don't know, I wasn't there.

[00:24:19] Sara: And again, Jesus lives 30 years and what we get is like the most Spark notes, like rendition of his life gospel. Like gospels don't even line up. The gospels are like, no he just, he wasn't, I don't know, like some Mark doesn't even have the birth story.

[00:24:32] They just dive right into when he is like the five or something. But so we have all these different problems. We have gospels that never got in there because they were considered like too crazy. Yeah. And like the gospel of Thomas is literally just like a big sayings book of Jesus just saying the most random stuff.

[00:24:46] Honestly,

[00:24:48] Ashley: like what notes? Yeah. Basic. Every time he says something good, he's oh, let me write that

[00:24:51] Sara: down. Yeah, that's how I was gonna go. But because because, and there are gospels that say like the craziest stuff that didn't get in there. Like for instance there's a story in the gospel.

[00:24:59] No, [00:25:00] the acts of. Thomas, I think, where he goes to India, he doesn't wanna go. He's fuck this, I don't wanna go to India. And, but he goes, and apparently he's a twin of Jesus. He's actually Jesus's twin. That's what Thomas Didymus means. And so he goes to this wedding, he blesses them half adly cuz he's I don't wanna be here and this sucks this princess and Prince here, whatever.

[00:25:19] And then they, prince goes to consummate the marriage, finds Thomas there. It's actually Jesus who just beamed back down there to be like, fuck them kids don't have kids suck. And like that, that never got put in the Bible because that would be a problem. But yeah, there's so many conflicting things and so many conflicting stories.

[00:25:34] And I'm reading Bart Airman's, Lost Christianity's right now. Which is like all about different, types of Christianity that never got stuck in there. And so you see how Timothy is like, women will be saved by having kids, is in direct opposition to all of this. Don't get married, don't have kids rhetoric that was going on.

[00:25:49] So the acts of Paul and Tekla never got in there because Wow. A Tekla, a 13 year old girl taking charge of her own body and saying, I'm not using this for anyone but me. I'm not [00:26:00] getting married. I'm gonna teach, I'm gonna do all this. Yeah. Obviously like Timothy is not written by Paul. We've pretty much narrowed this down at this point.

[00:26:07] But that's okay to put that in the Bible cuz it says what these church fathers agreed with acts of Paul Decla, which was also just written down by a guy who heard a bunch of stories about it. No. That's bullshit. You can't have that. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Alright. So it's it's such a mess.

[00:26:23] This is why I'm like, listen. For a long time I was like, fuck the Bible altogether. Just talk to God because this is such a mess that you're just never gonna know. But so it's by talking to God that you can find the pieces and you can get the character of him through the Bible. You can get a general sense of what he's about, but you gotta have a, you gotta talk to him directly.

[00:26:40] You can't like with any God, like you don't just read the stories and then say, that's great, and move on. You have to talk to these entities and these spirits. Yes. You can't just, but Christians, they pray and then they just never learn how to get an answer. So

[00:26:54] Ashley: no they just say it will, it'll be answered.

[00:26:56] And you're like, okay. It's okay, how? Yeah. Did you feel that you, they're [00:27:00] like, girl, I'm just telling you it'll be it. Don't worry. And

[00:27:04] Sara: I wonder, I'm like, is this, cause I've seen people say, oh, I prayed so hard, but God never answered me. I'm like, did he not answer you or were you, did you just never learn how to get the answer?

[00:27:12] Cause he'll answer pretty, he is, answers me very directly. Actually I just, I offer tarot readings and stuff and sometimes I look at the cards and I'm like, I gotta send this person like flowers or something. Cause this is brutal. But so he is very direct and specific and these people are like, I just never got an answer.

[00:27:29] And I'm like, how, I can only say that these people just unfortunately were never taught how to actually listen. They got the first part of talking down, but they didn't get the listening part. And so they were just like what am I doing?

[00:27:40] Ashley: Yes. 100%. This is, oh, and then you know what?

[00:27:46] One day, and maybe if you ever wanna come back, we'll do this because I definitely need to have a whole episode about all the books we didn't put in the Bible. Because that also frustrates me. Oh yeah. When I found out. One day I literally found out, I said, wait a [00:28:00] minute. I remember when, oh, I remember when I found out I was in school and we were talking about the Council of Nyia.

[00:28:06] And they were like, oh, and this is where they picked. I said, they picked what? Yeah. And they said they picked what they put in the Bible. I said, pardon, because I didn't know that there was all these books. So then I went on a deep dive again, I was in high school. I was like, whatever. I got time. I have a whole book, like lost books of the Bible.

[00:28:23] I haven't read all of it yet, but and then I thought to myself, I said, damn, I never even realized that. Like we jump, like Jesus was born then. He was like 12. Then he was like 30. I was like, damn, I never thought.

[00:28:34] Sara: And it's it's such a shame because the infancy gospels of Jesus, like of the infancy gospel of Thomas is so funny cuz it's like Jesus actually I don't know, he's on the playground at five.

[00:28:44] The kids are mean, he kills them. I don't know. Sorry. I heard that. I was like, and

[00:28:48] Ashley: Then he like push a kid off a roof by what's Yes.

[00:28:51] Sara: And he's doing this like Mary is like a gentle parenting queen because she like, he just takes a man's like fabrics all nice and colorful and tosses him in a vet of black dye.

[00:28:59] And [00:29:00] Mary's like, why did you do that? And he just pulls 'em out and he just like magically fixes that. But like it's exactly there's so much good stuff about it that humanizes Jesus. They make Jesus seem like this weird cardboard cutout of divinity. And I don't understand. Yeah. Why

[00:29:16] Ashley: they do.

[00:29:17] That's so I don't either. It's so weird. That's why my favorite, I always think my f every time like stuff would happen, I'd be like, even Jesus got mad cuz that's my favorite thing. Isn't Jesus got mad cuz I'm like, Look at this guy, like he's supposed to be this person and he's the son of God, and everything's super chill.

[00:29:34] And if you read. And this is my very basic understanding of things, but there's certain places in the Bible where he gets pretty annoyed. He gets annoyed with Peter all the time. He's always Peter, shut up. He's, yeah, Peter Sha is hell, because Peter's always trying to stop everybody from touching him and shit.

[00:29:52] And Jesus can you calm down? I'm getting tired of you being my bouncer calm. Chill the fuck. But no,

[00:29:59] Sara: [00:30:00] that's my thing. Like Jesus's two modes in the whole Bible are like tired and annoyed and he's just listen, and Peter's so type A doing the most to do the least. It is just Peter, please.

[00:30:10] But my favorite was the story in the boat though, where like Jesus literally just takes a nap while everyone's flipping out in this boat with a storm coming and they're like, don't you care if we die? Jesus. I literally, the Bible I was reading, he, it says, Jesus sat up and said, what is wrong with you?

[00:30:31] Guy wakes up. He's like, why are you bothering me? And then he just fixes the problem and he is great back to sleep now.

[00:30:36] Ashley: Jesus is so funny. He literally looks at, that is a really good story cuz he does come out and he said, I'm the freaking son of God. Can you guys chill out? You really think you're gonna die with me on this boat?

[00:30:50] Shut up. It's calm down. Jesus. Jesus. He literally screamed his own name cuz he was so mad.

[00:30:57] Sara: No, like literally, this is why I'm saying like, [00:31:00] and I think I wish Christians would take away say Hey as like children of God, like you are the first in line to get beat around. Just look at the apostles.

[00:31:07] Look at every, like Jesus is not smacking people around who are just like minding their business. It's the apostles that he's shouldn't you know better? But yeah. I don't know. When it comes to witchcraft, it's easier to find that because I can if I have a question, I could just be like, God help me out.

[00:31:21] I don't know. And and he'll just be like, oh so yeah, it's, the connection is just better and like it just makes more, and I find that like through this path, I'm a much more confident and like less afraid person. Like with witchcraft to me and all the mysticism and what it means to me.

[00:31:40] What it means to me is that I'm confident in my place in the world and my power and who I am and what I do. And so I, when I see people who like. Oh my God. Another entire honestly topic is those ex witches born again Christian types. Oh no, I see those. And I'm like, okay, so you messed something up and you got really scared [00:32:00] and you went back to church because that's comfortable.

[00:32:02] That's all you really were you virtue you? Yeah. Oh my. I have two of her decks and like Guana, when I heard her story was so dumb because like other people like actually did a spell and ate shit, right? So I'm like, okay, I understand you got scared for a second. But Dar read virtue was like driving her car and all of a sudden on the radio it says, oh, did you know about false prophets?

[00:32:20] And she decided that she must have been one. And now all of a sudden she has to recant everything she said. I'm like, girl, why does your brain made of silly putty that you just fell apart? Your whole business model changed in a car ride to work everything

[00:32:31] Ashley: she said. Oh no. Oh no. I think Doreen virtue though, you're dealing with angels and stuff, right?

[00:32:37] So where do you think you went wrong? I'm confused because, yeah. So

[00:32:41] Sara: I was like, girl I heard that story and I was like, I'm still gonna, I'm gonna use your tarot cards just spite you now, because no. But and like this is another thing, right? Angels, I go on Wich talk and I sit there and I see people talking about Angels as if they are like little buddies or no, I don't know.

[00:32:57] I've, we all know the book of Enoch and how literally [00:33:00] the Giants happened because angels like took human wives, but they're like, I'm Gods spouse to Michael. I'm like, we've fucking been here before. Like we've been here before. They're like, please. But these people are, act like angels are like like little buddies.

[00:33:11] And I'm like, have angels literally do not have a concept of human emotion. Like every time I, they talk like I, I encountered it. Like today I was talking to Archangel Ariel about like animals. I'm like, so what's like the point of animals right on earth? And she's every answer was like, you fucking people.

[00:33:27] Every single answer was like, you people. Ruined everything. And I was like, fair. That's fair. Every scene, like they're very blunt and direct and they're like, I don't understand why you all do such dumb things. But these people actually like, angels are just like happy little buddies.

[00:33:40] And that's how I know that you ain't talking to an angel. Angels don't do that.

[00:33:44] Ashley: I always think of Angel, first of all, I love every like Christmas time when they're like the real angels and people make those models of yep. Yeah, the spinning wheels and the eyes. My favorite.

[00:33:52] And also when I always think of angels as Okay, a target. And God is the CEO of Target and the Angels work [00:34:00] there and we're shopping and they're just disgruntled target employees. Like they don't wanna deal with us. They're like, I'm so powerful and smart and I have all the spiritual wisdom in the world.

[00:34:11] And then you dumb ass people who I'm constantly having to deal with just because God's telling me to, cuz he's my boss. Like they don't

[00:34:17] Sara: know. Exactly. Angels had the epitome of that feeling when you like find a baby shoe in the electronics aisle and they're just like, what the fuck? So I don't know can they be nice?

[00:34:29] Can they be friendly? Yes. But every engagement I've had, whether it's an angel in heaven or like a fallen angel is actually, I find honestly the fallen angels are probably a little bit more patient, ironically. Probably. Cause I

[00:34:40] Ashley: feel like they understand humans a little bit better and they realize they.

[00:34:43] We're idiots and they're like we don't have to help you. So it's not as much. Yeah.

[00:34:48] Sara: Basically they're just like, if you're here, it's because I don't know. You feel like, I don't know, like I, I work with Lucifer too. And Michael is very much like that football coach who wants you to drop and do 20 [00:35:00] if you like, put a toe out of line.

[00:35:01] Lucifer is like very if you've ever seen Coraline that Black can Coraline, that's Lucifer. He's just slinking around. He is I don't know, what do you think? What? Whereas Michael's here's exactly what you should think. But and so it's a very interesting dynamic working with both like angels in heaven and angels and I guess what we would call hell.

[00:35:18] It's not really the same as Christian's idea of hell, but Yeah. Because I don't know, it's basically just they're approaching the same problem from two different directions. And one side is very sensitive to the fact that humans are dumb and the other side just can't, they just can't deal with it.

[00:35:33] They're like So I told you what to do. You didn't do it. Why are you surprised that this whole situation is not what it is? Like

[00:35:44] Ashley: they're not a gentle being, they're not as chill as everybody thinks they are. No,

[00:35:49] Sara: for sure. Definitely. Like people to call when you were in serious trouble or you're like, you really need, or like you're willing to do the work.

[00:35:56] Yes. Otherwise I don't know, go make friends with the tree [00:36:00] outside. Please don't contact like actual divinities for small, stupid things.

[00:36:07] Ashley: So we could talk about this forever, which is I would love, but we're gonna move to our next section. So our next part of the show, since we're dying with the Divine, we talk about food.

[00:36:20] And because you are Slovenian, correct? I'm saying that right? Even though I know how to say it, but Okay. I always get I'll say Slovenia when Slovakia or Slovakia when Slovenia. So I always have to be very careful. I don't wanna mess up. So

[00:36:33] Sara: sounds like everyone does that though, so it's again, yeah, it's always like a thing, but no.

[00:36:38] Yeah. Snia. Okay.

[00:36:40] Ashley: So I looked up some Slovenian foods cuz I don't know anything about Slovenian foods, so I said, let me learn something today. I'm gonna name some foods, I'm gonna see them as well as I can. And I apologize to you and any other Slovenian people who are like, stop messing up our language.

[00:36:58] I'm sorry. So [00:37:00] we have something here and it looks very nice. It is called Rena Reina. It is a cake. It looks like there's layers of custard cream and puff pastry meaning of this Sloan dessert. And it is apparently utterly irresistible. Many cafes across Slovenia offer it, and it's supposed to be very nice.

[00:37:21] Then we have this and there's a J in it, so I'm not gonna pronounce it.

[00:37:25] Sara: I'm like, which one is it? One,

[00:37:27] Ashley: I think every time even. Okay. I think it's Slovenia. I might get this wrong again.

[00:37:33] Is it capital? It's l is it? Or is this Slovakia? No, you're

[00:37:38] Sara: right. Capital Blaa.

[00:37:39] Ashley: Yeah. Okay. See, whenever I am trying to pronounce something Slavic and there's a j I stop myself because I'm going to say it wrong.

[00:37:46] Sara: Yeah the only thing you gotta know is that the J is a y sound. So like a, yeah.

[00:37:50] Ashley: Okay. Okay, so this one would be

[00:37:57] Likea. Kind.

[00:37:59] Sara: Yeah.

[00:37:59] Ashley: [00:38:00] Okay. Okay. Okay. Woo. Okay.

[00:38:03] Sara: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, if a j is after a concert, it's kinda like a soft, it's not, it's kind. It's like a little softer, but otherwise it's a wine. Okay.

[00:38:15] Ashley: All right. So this is like a pork sausage. Apparently it's different than other pork sausages, and it's supposed to be very nice. People are saying that they blend it with the best pork, meat, and bacon, and they even have, ooh, different flavor, different people who make it have different seasonings they put in it, which sounds interesting.

[00:38:31] And it, you put it in like a stew. Apparently. People really enjoy this. You can put some sauerkraut on the side. Okay. Okay. I can see. You can put Ooh and some warm bread. Oh, I love warm bread. Yeah. With some mustard and a peppery. Horseradish. Okay, I'll take it. I'll eat that. Now we have this and there is a little sign on top of the sea, so we're gonna do our best.

[00:38:52] That's a Borg. It's a ch Borg. I Okay. Borg. [00:39:00] I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. This is, it's

[00:39:02] Sara: okay. It's just, I don't like, I don't think I, like I know the other two and I've had the other two, but I actually don't think I recognize this one. So this might be a regional one. Okay. Slovenia are regional.

[00:39:11] Ashley: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm, yeah. This is just general. I'm sure every region, like every country has different things. I'm don't mean to generalize the whole country. This is no. I know what you mean. This is just a little, okay, so this is from Eastern Slovenia. Okay. And this, okay. Okay, you said? Yep.

[00:39:27] This is a filling stew that was, is a staple sometimes at large events. They put three different types of meat, usually a pork, beef, and some other type of game. With potatoes, wine, sweet paprika, seasonal mushrooms and onions. Oh, I love mushrooms. And actually this is an onions in one pot. So this is actually an originally a Hungarian dish, but then like it came over to Slovenia after, after. Oh, okay. So Hungry Rules Slovenia, it says for a while. So I guess people made Slovenia people like this. Okay. Or at least that part [00:40:00] of Slovenia. I'm not sure. I'm sorry. I don't know too much of the history of Svia

[00:40:05] Sara: ba Yeah, basically little bit of stomping ground for four different cultures for centuries.

[00:40:08] So it's a mess. It's a mess in there.

[00:40:10] Ashley: There's a lot going on. Okay. Yes. Oh gosh. And then there's these like two different dumpling dishes. And I know dumplings are like a very big thing amongst many slavics people. Different kinds of dumplings with different fillings probably in every region and every different, group.

[00:40:26] Then we also have this very nice looking flatbread. It looks like focaccia bread. It's called. Po

[00:40:34] Sara: po. Gotcha. Po gotcha. Yeah. Okay.

[00:40:36] Ashley: Thank you. Thank you. You can use ooh, this is coming out of a oven in this, and I want to eat it right now. It looks very nice. You probably put some butter on it or something, whatever you want, cuz this looks delicious.

[00:40:49] Just eat that whole thing. It may look, it says, it may look like, I'm not gonna attempt to say this. I'm gonna describe it. It may look like a Australian Austrian strudel, but [00:41:00] this thing is uniquely Slovenian and it can be filled with savory or sweet combinations. It was once served only on festive occasions, but now it's served all year and it looks really nice.

[00:41:12] It is spelled, I'm gonna spell it for everybody. It's s with a little mark on top. R U. K L J I.

[00:41:21] Sara: Okay. Okay. I like wait. I know.

[00:41:24] Ashley: Okay. Yeah. Thank you. All right. And then our last one here we have trout. I can say trout. There's that one. And then the last one is, this is a carrot cake, so it's like a twist on carrot cake.

[00:41:38] Okay, here we go. There's no marks on any words, so I'm gonna do my best. I

[00:41:42] Sara: tried. Yeah. No, this is this is me too. When I started learning, I remember like when I was learning Sloan, I kept mispronouncing. Cause my mom was like, why do you sound like a Croatian? And I was like, oh my god. Okay. So I was like, okay. All right. But it's

[00:41:56] Ashley: Banza. Okay. Thank you. Oh, it sounds so good when you say it.

[00:41:59] [00:42:00] So this is it's like a carrot cake, but it's also another pastry. Pastry. It's layered with apples, walnuts, cottage cheese, and raisins. In a half cake pastry situation. So those are some of your Slovenian foods. If you don't know now, and there's a link in the show notes if you wanna look up the right way to say all these things.

[00:42:16] But, so thank you. So this is the part of the show where I'm gonna plug myself. So if you enjoy this show, you can like it, you can follow it, you can give us a five star rating on whatever platform you're listening it to, listening to it on. And this is d with the Divine on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook too.

[00:42:36] And if you have any suggestions or questions or comments, please feel free to email me at Dine with the divine pod gmail.com. Okay, we're gonna move on. So our little tea time, which is we try to do a little educational situation, then we get to our story after. So this tea time subject is really long, so I'm gonna shorten it.

[00:42:56] Because we feel like we've talked a lot about certain kind of stuff like [00:43:00] this, Christian gnosticism, this is what we're talking about now. So gnosticism in itself is about like a mystery and there's different gnostics all over the world. If you've ever heard of The, if you've ever heard of a quote unquote whirling dervish or those people, and they wear hats and they have, they're usually men or male presenting people who are wearing long skirts and they're always whirling and they look very pretty when they're doing it.

[00:43:25] That is a type of Islamic narcissism or mysticism. So this, now we're concentrating on Christian mysticism, and I got a lot of this from world history.org. So this was written by an actual professor, not just a blog. Okay? So it's not just some random person. This lady's like a professor of religion at somewhere in Pittsburgh, so she's like a real professor.

[00:43:45] So the definition we have here is narcissism. So Christian narcissism is the belief that human beings contain a peace of God, the highest good, or a divine spark within themselves, which has fallen from the immaterial world into the bodies of humans. [00:44:00] It's trapped in the material world, but ignorant of its status.

[00:44:03] The pieces of God require knowledge, gnostic. To inform them of their true status. That knowledge must come from outside the material world. And the agent who brings it is a savior or redeemer. Okay. So the thing about Christian Gnosism is that basically this is something, okay, if you didn't know now, but when Christianity started, it was a cult.

[00:44:29] It wasn't a religion, it wasn't a big deal. Everybody thought it was weird. People like, why are they worshiping that dead guy? That's really strange, right? Yeah. That's how yeah. That's how everybody looked at it. And everyone's freaked out. So no, it wasn't like an immediate superstar religion.

[00:44:44] People thought it was weird. So in the beginning there were like, okay, there's a lot of different sex of Christianity now, but back then there was no central authority like a pope or anything like that. Not at the beginning because it, everybody [00:45:00] was just doing whatever they wanted with it. There was no Bible really to reference at this point.

[00:45:05] So they were just like, okay. Everybody was just doing whatever they wanted and worshiping the way they wanted. This inspired this group of gnostics these people looking for different kinds of knowledge from Christ. So this is another thing that came from the article. During the first three centuries of Christianity, there was no central authority until the conversion of the Roman Emperor Constantine.

[00:45:27] They were great. In three 12 CE Christian communities taught many different views. And in the second century, ce, some groups now collectively referred to as Gnostic Christians claim to have access to secret knowledge about the nature of the universe, the nature of Christ, and what his appearance on earth meant to believers.

[00:45:46] And in the middle of the second century, CE a group of Christian leaders retroactively. Referred to as the church fathers, you actually mentioned them before Sarah which is Justin Martyr Urinary [00:46:00] Tertullian, and others wrote volumes against Gnostic Christians. And we're gonna go into later why?

[00:46:07] Because agnostic Christians, they're, they view of Christianity was like different, but they okay a lot of the time. Later on, Christianity was more about like how you have to save yourself and be a good person so you can get to heaven. But the gnostics were more about the way to save yourself was to learn and to gain knowledge through like spiritual experiences.

[00:46:35] They weren't so concerned about sin. They weren't so concerned about going to Heaven or hell, they just really wanted to learn stuff. So their church fathers, they didn't like that shit. They're like, that shit's weird. Yeah. They were like,

[00:46:49] Sara: you guys. Yeah. Yeah. God. Like the church fathers make me, when I read about them, I am instantly, like when I get to heaven, line 'em up for me.

[00:46:56] God line 'em up. They're all getting a smack, just down the line. Like [00:47:00]

[00:47:01] Ashley: they were really bad. They weren't mad. So there was like, Miss gets a little, I mean I had to read it a few times cause it gets a little confusing, but they, so in a way they believe in not really two gods. It's confusing. So they believe in there's God and then they said there's this thing called the demi urge.

[00:47:23] Yeah. Yes. And it's not really another God, but it was just like something God accidentally created.

[00:47:29] Sara: Yeah. The thing this is this isn't, and I don't think this was all gnostic sex that thought this, cuz again, there was no central authority for shit. There was a bunch of different wasn't,

[00:47:36] Ashley: and then she mentions that not all gnostic sex thought like this, but Go ahead.

[00:47:40] Sorry.

[00:47:40] Sara: Yeah. But yeah, so no, like the gnostics have very different ideas, this specific sect. And this is like the one part or. The main part of narcissism that I'm like, this is Gs really didn't like Jewish people. Huh? Because like literally their demi urge they're saying is the God of the Old Testament.

[00:47:53] They're saying the God of the Israelites is this evil demi urge trying to trick humanity into doing evil. And that's what [00:48:00] their Torah is. It's the evil laws of badness. And Jesus's father is the real God. And I'm like, this just sounds like you don't like Jewish people. Yes. But in a very long, drawn metaphor.

[00:48:11] Ashley: I know. I read that during this article and I was like, I had, this is one of the things I had to read again. I like, yeah. They were like no. Our God is different. I was like,

[00:48:19] Sara: I right. And I was like, okay, thanks for that, but no. You guys stop if you read. Oh yeah. The ag gnostic gospel of Judas is like such an acid trip.

[00:48:27] Like it's a fever dream. And just like the most wacky nonsense, like I felt like I was reading Lord of the Rings with the names they were pulling out. I was like, what the hell? It was with, alright, whoever wrote this is like just bashi now this, no, something got taken out of the Bible because everyone was what?

[00:48:46] Ashley: So we actually, they talk about that later,

[00:48:48] Sara: this article too. So we'll bring that back up. But they, so gnostic concepts they also have they say in this article at least that they mirror this school of philosophy, like [00:49:00] ex existential, you know what I'm saying? Ex existential is, oh God, it's so hard for me to say that word.

[00:49:06] People asking why do we exist? What's going on? Who am I? Where did I come from? All that good stuff. So they thought a lot about that, and that's part of the reason, and we get ba down to that. I'm just gonna look through my notes real quick. Where do I get to that at some point? I'll get back to that.

[00:49:20] So they talk a lot about so okay, they also talk about this thing. You'll probably understand this better than me, Sarah. Again, I was very confused when I was, no, Gnosticism is such a wild ride. So like it's I was like, what? Then there's this thing, so then there's this thing Sophia, and it's one of the icons and I don't even really under, I read it five times.

[00:49:40] I was like, I don't understand what Ancon is, but it just luck. It's God, okay, God who does not create, Yeah, but then he did create, he emanated these powers like sun and light and these other things, but they're not physical. I don't ask me, I'm not an expert on this. I'm not a scholar. I read three [00:50:00] articles five times.

[00:50:01] No, this is what I'm saying, Lord of the rings level. Cuz we were just singing the sun into the universe now. What, what's happening here? I'm like, so he doesn't have powers, but he just emanates like he sweats it out. I'm confused. Imagine oops, I cut my finger. And now that we have a planet.

[00:50:16] Exactly. Actually it's I don't know if but it in Norse mythology, the first giant yame, he just like sweats. And then he makes two other people. And I was like, is this what we're doing in this belief system? Also? I'm confused, but it's fine. I'm like, yeah this is why I love mythology.

[00:50:32] Cuz it's y'all really had a good time around that fire when you came up with this shit. I'm like, who? What happened? I'm like, so there's lots of stuff that you guys, again, I'm not gonna get into all of this because it gets so confusing, but just know, oh, also no gnostics. They had a idea that like, which actually makes a little bit of sense to me.

[00:50:54] First of all, God said I am who I am in many well to Moses, right? And they [00:51:00] say the gnostics are like, God doesn't have a gender so we shouldn't really call him the father cuz he's just androgynous. Which makes sense to me. Because if he's this big power thing, then why would he have a gender?

[00:51:09] It doesn't matter, whatever. So then they say also that Christ came to Earth and he wasn't really a human. He was just like in human form to try to help us find the God piece in ourselves to enlighten that peace. Yeah, I know it's weird. Yeah, no, this is this is what it is like now again, people, 2000 years later, very much take for granted that the SUM church came and cozied it up.

[00:51:36] All nice for everybody in the Bible. Because back in the day, there was like, for a good two centuries, they were debating like, is Jesus God? Is he human? Is he both? I don't know. Like they had a whole fucking mess about it where they were just like, I literally don't know. And like all the Pagan critics at the time were like, you guys are dumb.

[00:51:51] Like you were very stupid. So it was just, it was a lot. There was a lot of pressure. Everyone was upset, but but it, it [00:52:00] is true though that God is not a gendered being. It's just that a lot of the main thing we're running with is obviously it's easier for a patriarchal society to listen to a father than Yeah.

[00:52:10] Anything else. Like a lot of these, and actually there used to be like a goddess that was worshiped alongside him, Asura that came out. The can night pan and They just edited her out. Like they just deleted her. Out of the manuscripts come the reforms of Kings reside. So it was like, great, cool, thanks.

[00:52:24] But now we have this very, we've got father, son, mother, no spirit. And it's oh, okay. So we all just a lot of us see that Haggas, Sophia, that Holy Spirit as like the female aspect of God. Which is wild to, for me, I just, I don't really care about divine and feminine.

[00:52:42] I just don't jive with like feminine kind of stuff. So I'm like, I didn't take it or leave it, but. Sophia's kind of a wild animal a little bit because she just comes in there and starts like slapping people. So is it's hold on. But, all that aside Yeah. It, this is something that pops up in the gospel of Mary Magdalene the [00:53:00] most.

[00:53:00] Which is the idea that like, Jesus came here to be a blueprint. He wasn't here just to be like, ha, I've saved all of you worthless people, and now you can continue being worthless, but worshiping me. He didn't do that. Like it, he came down and he said, Hey, everything I ca I can do, you will do and do greater like all this stuff.

[00:53:17] And Mary Magnus and there's no sin. Sin is just what happens when we like forget who we are and like do stupid things. Yeah. So Jesus is basically like, all of you should be working on this while I'm gone. And none of us worked on it. And now here we are with these mega churches scamming people out of a million dollars every month, a hundred percent.

[00:53:34] Yep. It's the American way. Not just American. I shouldn't say that. Let me spread the sin everywhere. It's all over the place. Yes. Okay. Speaking of sin, so this is where we get to the church fathers again. Here they come. They're like, Hey, actually we don't like any of this shit, so this is what we're gonna do.

[00:53:51] We're gonna defend this thing and we're gonna call you guys heretics and say that you guys are bad people because we don't agree with all this shit. This. So one [00:54:00] thing they said, okay, these are some of the reasons they didn't agree. So number one, the NAICS promoted a higher God of pure essence and love as being the true God over the creator God.

[00:54:09] So basically because they had this weird thing where they didn't like Jews, and they were saying that like the God was wrong and their God was wrong and was the lesser God. The gnostics were like, that doesn't, no, the church fathers were like, that doesn't make sense. Shut up. So then they also said, yeah, and then again, this leads into the next thing where they said basically that Christianity and Judaism were very different, which isn't really true at all.

[00:54:34] Because Christianity grew out of Jesus, who was a Jewish person. So there again, they were like you can't really condemn the Jews in this sense, at least right now. They're like, we're only concerned about we hate you, we hate Jews. Later, they're like right now we don't like you.

[00:54:48] Oh God. That was upset. Oh, it's so messy cuz it's no what happened was like Rome was persecuting these Christians cuz like there's a really good book Christians as the Romans saw them by Robert Lewis Wilkin. And in that book it's basically [00:55:00] Yeah. Rome didn't know what to do with them, cuz at the time they would have like guilds for the craftsmen and stuff.

[00:55:04] And they had to ban those from getting together because they would get political and the emperor got nervous about it. So anyone who was caught doing that, they would just kill. And so at one point, Pliny, this guy Pliny, the elder comes to this area of Syria to audit like their businesses and whatever, cuz everyone's like bleeding money.

[00:55:19] And he discovers this weird ass group of people who just I don't know, Belief in this dead dude and so pleases I'm confused, but just kill him cuz I don't got time to do it. But he's alright, it's fine. Literally he sent the letter to the Emper being like, what do I do? And then by the time the em like emperor got the letter, he sent another one be like, yeah, I just killed him.

[00:55:36] Whatever. It's fine. So like they would just thought it was weird ass upstart group that came outta nowhere. And no one could tell are you philosophers? Are you politic? What are you doing? And so then they're like no. Like we are the inheritors of the Jewish tradition.

[00:55:48] Meanwhile, every Jewish person in the Roman Empire is like, who? I know. They're like, who are you? What do you I'm not, I don't, I'm not with them. I don't know why you're saying I don't know her. I don't know her. It was such a mess. Yeah. And this is why even though Rome didn't [00:56:00] really like, like Jewish people either, at least they, they were like, your religion is old, so if your religion is old, your religion is legit.

[00:56:07] This Yeah. I don't know what this is. And Jewish people were like, yeah, we don't know what it is either. Don't look at us if this starts doing weird things. I don't. So that's why Christians really started not liking Jewish people. And you could see a lot of that anti-Jewish sentiment in the Bible in places like Acts 19, where like it's a Jewish exorcist that just get tossed on their ass for doing magic or something.

[00:56:26] But like all of us, for Christians being like, no, we are the true way. But even Paul says Hey you are supported by Israel. Don't, what are you doing? Don't fuck this up guys. So much. But yeah, in essence, they, we have focused on like totally beating up Jewish people yet. Yeah.

[00:56:44] They're like, we're gonna be you guys up and we'll get back to that because we're hateful. Is God. Yeah. The worst, like exactly by century four, Christianity falls apart. They also basically go on to say too about this [00:57:00] part is the only part of the gnostic part that I was like, okay, I agree with this.

[00:57:02] Saying there's divinity within you. Okay, that's nice. Diagnostics. They didn't have everything together, but that's a nice sentiment. And but then the church fathers were, and I think this, from what I know about the church, I feel like they were probably like if you guys, cuz they're saying the church is within us and all we have to do is really like study and concentrate and stuff.

[00:57:24] And they're like wait. They're not gonna come to church and they're not gonna wanna give us money because they're gonna keep talking about the churches within me. So they're like, that's wrong. The church is only within these other people who are priests and you have to go talk to them to feel good.

[00:57:40] Damn it. Yeah. A lot of it was, again, and like I can understand like why they wanted that, because Again, shit was all over the place. It was mess. If you look at certain things, like there was one church that like, cuz there was no actual Bible. One church was using the gospel of Peter, which is not in the canonical Bible.

[00:57:55] And so one guy this bishop that oversaw it was like, yeah, I guess you can [00:58:00] keep using that. And then the congress, someone in the congregation was like, I don't know, but it says to not ever get married and that kids have cooties and are gross. And so the bishop's oh fuck no. Season stop.

[00:58:09] Stop. He's no. Stop using that gospel. Stop. So there was like, all these things had to happen. So they had to have some kind of system of overheads that could like, deal with these problems. And so that was that. But that also ba Yeah. So if you got someone saying, oh, we don't even need church leaders.

[00:58:24] And the church leaders are like, y'all can't find your ass from your elbow. Y'all using my dead like manuscripts we've never heard of. Yes. So what do you even mean? And so yes, they wanted control, but also they were very concerned that like everyone's gonna be talking a different story.

[00:58:38] And it'd be like, oh yeah, what do you believe is a Christian? And just say the most inane shit. So it's but yeah, that was a big struggle. Especially in people like Tertullian, like that was the one I was talking about earlier. Were like timothy's, okay. Where it says women should shut up and just have babies.

[00:58:50] Thula is not, it was Tertullian who was on that, who was like the acts of Paul and Tekla is a forgery and Timothy is very good and holy. And it's [00:59:00] like both of these are forgeries, but Okay. Like I know they picked and choose. Yeah. Literally I was like, bro, like they're both made up by people who were not actually there.

[00:59:09] I know. So what do you mean? God? That's literally it. So also the church fathers, so there were gnostic writings that were found. Now we're jumping way ahead in like the early 19 hundreds is it's called now the No Hamadi library. So this is a bunch of books. Or writings I should say, found in Egypt.

[00:59:30] These two guys were digging somewhere and they were like, oh shit, what's this? And so they took it to this book dealer and he was like, oh shit, this shit is old.

[00:59:42] Oh, basically this was a bunch of gospels, like you said, it's not in the canonical part of the main gospels. And there was a bunch of shit and then some of the shit in there. It was wild cuz they were like, women should be able to study the Bible and they should be able to become. Leaders in the [01:00:00] church and we should be cool with like other religions and shit.

[01:00:03] And then they were like, absolutely not. So all the churches, yep. The church said, absolutely not. We're not doing this with all of you. And they said, condemn those books. So they said, don't read that anymore. And there was a lot of the things you were, you've been talking about, Sarah, were in it, a lot of these different gospels that nobody had ever heard of.

[01:00:23] And a lot of it was just shit that everybody did not agree with. And they said, absolutely nobody's allowed to read this and make up their mind for themselves. We've made up everybody's mind and our mind says, Absolutely not.

[01:00:37] My God. Yeah. And I think actually, and I think Mary specifically, Mary Magdalene's gospel was like, I don't know, some German dude was bumming around in like Cairo, Egypt and just he found it like at a little market, like some dude just had it on the market table and he's oh, this looks cool. And then he was like, oh shit, this is like a whole ass.

[01:00:52] Lost book of the Bible. This is like another, yes we also did an episode about that. And there the, again, I'm sorry. I know [01:01:00] one day God's gonna yell at me. He'll be like, why are you always yelling at Peter? Because Peter was messing it up again. Even in Mary Magdalene's gospel. Peter was yelling at her talking about why, that's what I'm saying.

[01:01:09] He's always doing the most, but he, it's like too much. Peter, relax. Like Peter, I'm sure Peter was fine. Like he was probably like, He's, he was a loyal friend. I'll give him that. Like he meant, not sedan, but I'm so mad with these books that didn't get included because one of them is the acts of Peter in which he's having a whole ass Shadow Wizard money game contest with fricking Simon the Magos.

[01:01:29] They're like Simon's flying. Peter's praying. He falls out, he falls and breaks his leg, like the dumbest loony tunes ass just in the street. And we don't have this accent. Peter please, come on. This is crazy. But just know it gets wild. I'm not gonna go more into narcissism because it could go off forever, but just know that it was a wave that people were thinking during early Christianity and for the church fathers.

[01:01:53] Once they figured that out, they said, this is wild. We can't let people be thinking all this random shit. We gotta make one central area, which I [01:02:00] totally understand where you're saying. They're like, everybody's just doing whatever they want out here. We've gotta at least centralize our religion.

[01:02:06] That makes sense to me now I get that. But just know that the Gnostics, they were Christians, but they just had some wild views and they're still gnostics technically today. But more it's like people are just it to me, when I think of narcissism, it's more of just like a spiritual way of thinking about it instead of just thinking about I have to go through all these different channels to talk to God.

[01:02:29] These people were saying if God's within me and I learn a lot about it, maybe that I can be more godly. Which makes a lot of sense. Yeah, actually that's like your central thought. Go ahead. And you know what's so funny actually about all this as we're talking about church fathers and the like, who's the person Christians love most?

[01:02:44] It's not Jesus, it's Paul, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's Paul. And Paul's another one of those where I read him like I read his letters, so I get tired so fast. I'm like, Paul, you are doing so much right now and I need you to tone it down. Please stop yelling. But so it's so funny that it's so funny that [01:03:00] everyone was like, Paul this and the church in heresy, cuz the one who revealed to me the secret of Christian magic was St.

[01:03:05] Paul when I channeled him and he said exactly that. Everyone's got a little spark here in their chest. And you use that to hook up to the power of God. Yeah. That's what magic is. You're using that to open up that space and call down the fire as they say. So it's Yeah. The one that told that was Paul, ironically of all people.

[01:03:23] It was crazy. But all that aside yet, no the gnostics had it right in that regard. And there was a bunch of different other things that like over time went on that they didn't like. There was like a meditation style, like Hesi chasm, which is like you curl into a ball with your head as close to your chest as possible to hear your own heart or, I don't know.

[01:03:38] It's weird, but Yeah. All that kind of stuff. And the church just hated this because they were like, no, you guys have to we only us are allowed to even read the Bible. It's all in Latin. You can't have it. No. And all that kind of stuff. And There were so many other mystics going on.

[01:03:51] And another thing, I don't know, people act like the Bible and like God just kinda wrote revelation and then fucked off. But the thing is right there. They're like [01:04:00] and done. And then God just went on vacation for the next two millennia. I don't know. But there were mystics all through this time.

[01:04:05] Like even in the 1930s we had Saint Maria Faustina from Poland who was like, have you ever seen that image of Jesus? And a lot of Catholics like it. It's there's a big red ray and a white ray coming. Outstanding. Yeah. Yeah. That was an image that she had revealed to her. And Jesus was like, commissioned this.

[01:04:19] So she did, she finally found it. And she has a whole diary of her conversations with Jesus and she's a saint. She, whatever. And so that was the 1930s. So people keep being like the Bible says, I'm like, first of all, that we don't even have old fucking Bible.

[01:04:31] The Bible is a mess. Second of all, What do you babe? It is 2023. You think God just went to launch it and like never came back? What do you mean please? He just went to, he was like, I'm done. I'm doing my rest now. And he's just been sleeping for 2000 ish years. No, I'm saying I'm looking, I'm like, do you think God went to get milk or something?

[01:04:52] Or they just didn't come back? What's up? What do you mean? I dunno. People they're always like, oh, like they, they accuse me of trying to [01:05:00] be a prophet or talking to demons is another one. They say, you're not talking to Jesus, you're talking to a demon. And I'm like, that's crazy cuz you remember who else accused Jesus of using demon powers in Matthew.

[01:05:09] Oh yeah. But so it, it's, the whole thing is I like to call this superstitious atheism cuz that's what a lot of Christians are actually doing. They don't actually believe in God because the second you say, yeah, God talks to me, they look at you like you need to be committed. Yeah.

[01:05:22] And it's do you believe in. Invisible man in the sky or not hi. You've already believed he's there. Why is talking to him like now too much? Exactly. Hello. I'm okay. What I'm saying it doesn't make, and this is a quick out of nowhere story, but it just reminded me, it made me laugh to myself. So there was like, there's a story about how Ganges Khan, so Ganges Khan was making his way across Asia and he made it all the way to Hungary.

[01:05:52] And he told them, Hungarians were like, oh shit, that crazy guy is coming here. They're like, oh shit. So they wrote to [01:06:00] the Pope because back then that's what you did. It's in the 12 hundreds. They didn't know what else to do. So they said, Pope, help us. And the Pope is no problem. I'm coming. I'm gonna write to Genghis Khan about Jesus Christ.

[01:06:12] So he wrote this letter about Jesus. Now, I don't know how he thought this was gonna stop a war, but he did. So he wrote the letter, but the letter now had to be translated through six people. So when it got to Genus Khan, he was like, what the fuck is this about? Oh my. That's so funny. He's wait, there was a lady, but she was a virgin, that she had a baby, and he floated to the sky.

[01:06:39] I'm so confused. And that's the thing, right? Like people who aren't, when they take for granted, they're raised with the story all their life. So Yeah. They don't realize how absolutely bad trade it sounds to anyone who doesn't. Like I, and that's why I don't know. I remember like when my early witch journey, I, a lot of it was like, people were like, oh how are you a Christian if you believe other gods exist?

[01:06:56] I'm like, okay, if one exists, all of them have to [01:07:00] exist in some capacity. I can't be picking and choosing. What do you mean? So I don't know, if this is possible, anything's possible. All right. But, unicorns could, it could be a unicorn in there the whole time. I don't know. And I don't know.

[01:07:12] And I feel like Christians are, a lot of them get very stressed because they feel like they have to be right and they have to have the right answers, and they have to know exactly what's going on. And then it's I don't know how to tell you this, but we've never known what's going on. Not once, not one single time have we had our shit together.

[01:07:23] So it's just educated guess and not really educated. Yeah, honestly. Yeah. And so a lot of people will ask me, they'll be like, aren't you afraid of like hell? And I'm like, I will cross that bridge when I get there. Like I'm really not wasting my time worrying about it like I used to be when I was a kid, like very nervous about hell.

[01:07:42] Like I used to think oh shit. Like I, if I cursed, I really thought, I remember doing this multiple times, trying my luck. I'd be like seven or eight, I cursed to myself. I'd be like, shit. And then I would look up because I really thought I'd be struck down. I just believed it in my heart. And then when it wasn't [01:08:00] happening, I remember asking my dad, being like, dad, so here's this deal.

[01:08:03] I have a question if I do something wrong. I was like, am I going to hell? And my dad's nah, probably not. I was like, now you're good, you're fine. Yeah. He's no. You just have to be sorry that you did it. And don't, and try to do better. I said, oh, that's it. I said, but what I do it again?

[01:08:18] He's you can probably just ask for forgiveness again. I said, all and that was like the biggest relief. I was like, oh, that's it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no. Oh my God. And that's why I'm saying, so I'm like, it's really not that like big and, but people get, they ask me like, what if you're wrong about witch crowd?

[01:08:31] I'm like, don't think I will not walk directly up to God and be like, you had how many chances to tell me this? I'd be like, sorry. Yeah. Li like I, I've told him, I'm like, listen I'm doing this because as far as I'm concerned, God, you told me that this was a good idea. So if I get up there and you say, haha, pranks, I'm gonna be so pissed.

[01:08:48] I'm gonna be so mad you've been punk. You're like, pardon? I will actually just moonwalk into hell myself. At that point. I'll be like, listen, oh, I could, I just had an [01:09:00] image of you just be you know what? All right, fine. But what the fuck? That is hilarious.

[01:09:07] Okay, so that's our story about Gnostic and then we're gonna get to our last little segment. So our last segment here, we're gonna talk about something you talked about before a little bit. You mentioned our new bestie of the week is hildegard of Binging. I don't know if it's binging or binging, I'm not sure.

[01:09:27] I think probably binging because she's she's German, but yeah, it just sounds goofy. So say it However's Natural. Okay. Like it's binging just makes me be like, who? Yeah. Being this is, we're just gonna call her Hildegard right now. She was, and I remember too when I was younger and I was like looking into this Christian witch thing, she was somebody who kept popping up cuz they were like, if ever there was a representative it's our friend Hildegard, cuz she was out here.

[01:09:54] She Okay. You'll hear how cool she is. Cuz even I'm like, Hildegard. Oh she was so [01:10:00] amazing. God, I love her. She's so cool. Okay, so here's the story. This is what happened. So she was born, and she was also called this Sybil. So Sybil also means like oracle or prophet test.

[01:10:09] So she was called the S of the Rhine also. So she was born sometime in ten ninety eight. Her father was a knight , A knight for the count of span Hai. So we'll just say that. Doing my best German here with a ha. She was the 10th child.

[01:10:25] So literally she ended up being a tithe for the Lord. Back then, this was something you did sometimes I guess if you had 10 children, you're like, huh, 10th, that's cool. She could be our tithe. So they dedicated her to God because they thought that was a good idea. But also when she was three, she started having visions.

[01:10:46] They do see though that the visions, what she was experiencing according to her symptoms was also probably a migraine. Now does that mean her migraine didn't lead to visions? Absolutely not. Maybe it did. It's not a problem. But she probably [01:11:00] had terrible migraines also that were so bad that it would cause her like temporary blindness and paralysis.

[01:11:05] Like it was real, real bad for her. But during these. Episode, she would have visions. So her family's okay, you're the 10th, we're gonna send you off to live with this lady. Oh, before that, they said in this book that I was reading it's the Encyclopedia of Mystic Saints and Sages, which I really enjoyed.

[01:11:21] It said she was an unusual child who unnerved people. So she made me pull the uncom mom. This is just like a through line. I feel like everyone who's into like magic or mysticism, like you could point 'em out when they're kids because they're weird as fuck. Like all these kids are weird as.

[01:11:39] Basically that's what they said. They said Hildegard is strange. She's in the corner there on the ground. They're like, what's wrong with her? Now? She's having a vision. Leave her alone. I like her. This, we actually did episode two on Padre Pyle. People didn't say that, but for everything I read about him, they were like, he was weird.

[01:11:55] Yeah, he was, it was a little no, that's, I'm like, you dedicated her to God. Then you got [01:12:00] surprised that she started doing like weird mystic shit. I don't, what did you think was gonna happen? It's so disrespectful. I'm like, you guys. Okay, so then again, another thing is that she, at the age of eight now, she was sent to live with this holy lady who was also a hermit and her name is Judah of Heim, which maybe is next to Heim.

[01:12:19] She is by some account say that it was her aunt. Like her dad's sister, but some in Cal State, it was like somebody the family knew. So I don't know. But that's fine. So she was living in this small room with one window. She ate only every 12 hours. She ate at 3:00 AM and 3:00 PM I don't know why she was eating at 3:00 AM in the morning, right?

[01:12:38] Girl, just wake up for this. What do you mean I poor girl? Where were you sleeping? I don't understand what they were doing. Just wake up, it's time to eat a bowl of cereal at am. So that was weird, but it's fine. It worked for her. So she spent a lot of time praying, studying. She was doing embroidery as one does in the dark [01:13:00] ages of Europe.

[01:13:00] Why wouldn't you be doing embroidery? It's fun. And she was fasting so she didn't have, so you're gonna see how amazing she was on the fact that she didn't even really have. A formal education. Like she didn't really learn, nobody sat down and taught her how to read and all that kind of stuff. So for all that, and I'm opening my book cuz I didn't wanna write all this down.

[01:13:21] She had a lot of accomplishments. So, in at age 15, she then became a full fledged nun and then Judah died and she took Judah's place around 1136 and she founded two monasteries. And one thing that I read that was really cool was that people would write letters to her and then use those letters as talisman basically, which I thought was really cool.

[01:13:46] That's how much people really liked her. And you'll see again, how much people like her. I'm gonna read some other facts from this book, the Encyclopedia about her. Okay, this is just a couple of things she did, guys, just a couple. Just a couple. No big stuff. She wrote [01:14:00] plays, poems, hymns, mystical works, biographies of saints and treaties on natural history and medicine.

[01:14:07] She advised Popes, kings, emperors, and Bishops. She corresponded with Emperor Frederick Barbarosa, St. Bernard of Clairvaux and others, including some popes. She was a preacher at the time when women weren't supposed to be preachers. This was like a really big deal. Remember, this is like the 1100. She wasn't supposed to be doing all this shit.

[01:14:27] She said that the Holy Spirit inspired her and compelled her to speak. Hildegard was a healer. Okay? This is my favorite. Hildegard was a healer and she was an expert herbalist. Specializing in women's medicine and prescribing exercise, rest, which is important. And she was out here using crystals. My girl.

[01:14:44] Yes. Yeah, that's, I'm like, she wrote such comprehensive, like medical journalists, she's like, all these plants, they do this and all these plants they do that. And that was really good medical knowledge for that day. So like I was like, what this? She just [01:15:00] came out here and did it. And this is, and that crystals thing.

[01:15:02] Yeah. You look at people like crystals are demonic. I'm like, are you dumb? I know like our girl Hildy a thousand years ago told us that crystals wore off evil. Yes. She made crystal elixirs and hot mineral baths. She was like, you guys, guess what? If you wash yourselves sometimes, which is probably also revolutionary.

[01:15:20] They were like, girl. Yes. And they were like, I'm like, I'm gonna give you these crystals to put in your house and you're good. I'm gonna put some water. And I'm gonna let you drink it later and you'll feel better. And people probably did. And she collected, like you just said, she collected and compiled over 2000 remedies and recommended proper nutrition and gemstone therapy.

[01:15:40] She wrote about the sacred bonds between humans and the natural world. She was a naturalist ahead of her time. She was also a brilliant musician and composer credited with the first opera. Approximately 80 of her compositions survived, and the recordings of them are available. And she wrote Chance for Female Singers.

[01:15:58] Another thing that people were like, why are you [01:16:00] letting women sing about how h their. God. And she's cuz I like it. Oh yeah. She got excommunicated in the last few years of her life, barely got restored because she was going around you men in the church suck my ass. Like she was going around just like laying it on them and they like didn't like it.

[01:16:16] So here's the thing, St. Thomas Aquins is goon who's yeah, women suck. Like he gets, yeah, he's he's another one that's getting a windmill when I get up there. But so he's yeah, women are like really pretty, but they're like not meant to do anything except serve men hot. So 30 years after he dies, he gets canonized.

[01:16:30] It takes Hildegard a thousand years for the church to finally be like, yeah, she was important. It's wild. It's so bad. But yeah. So she, and she was going on I think saying some controversial stuff too. Like she was like, yeah women should be able to like, enjoy their own bodies she was like, men.

[01:16:45] Yeah. Forget men. She, but she's there's no reason a woman should have to worry about hanging out with herself. Yes. So I'm like, Hildegard's out here, like just spitting every single time, everything she says. I was like yes, girl. I don't know, but that's, it is like such a breath of fresh [01:17:00] air in the middle ages when men were still deciding if women had souls or something and hildegard's like, what?

[01:17:05] Yeah. It's actually I have something to say about that. Yeah. And I don't know, but these days, right? Everyone, no one likes Catholicism. For good reasons, but also for dumb reasons. The, oh they're Pagan, which is who? I, what do you mean? We have okay, been, but, so if you say hey, if Saint Hildegard said this, you'll get people being like, only Jesus matters.

[01:17:23] And it's okay. Yeah, it's fine. It's oh my God. Yeah. So yeah. Can't have a conversation with people like sometimes. Oh God. Yeah. But honestly I am surprised that Hildegard didn't get napped for witchcraft because if you I remember so many stories of doctors like these men, doctors just being like dumb as dirt and they would be like, be putting leeches on people to heal them and they would not get better obviously.

[01:17:46] So they would go to the village witch who was like, yeah, here's like a tea I made out of some shit I found outside. And they would get better because like medicine exists. And so they'd be like, how are these witches doing this? It's what? Because they still do [01:18:00] that in Africa all the time. It's, but it's like you guys the plants have things and then like aspirin came from willow bark.

[01:18:06] Come on. Yes. Come on. So it's lots of, it's just a lot of people who hate ladies. That's all it is. People are fucking crazy. And yeah. Oh, the other thing was, so she kept her visions a secret for a long time. She didn't tell anybody. But then she got sick and then she was like, I might as well spill the tea about my visions.

[01:18:24] So she told us, she told the pope, and the pope was like, girl, write that down. She's no problem. So she started writing everything down. She even painted portraits of herself experiencing visions. She, okay, and this is a quote, Also from this book, she literally saw solutions to medical and theological dilemmas, like you're just saying.

[01:18:44] And she also literally saw a future where women were honored and respected. She saw biblical fi figures, angels, demons, and ancient pa goddesses In her visions, she had visions of God whom she perceived as possessing male and female aspects. So we go back to that [01:19:00] whole androgyny thing again, because it just makes sense, but I'm not gonna go into it again.

[01:19:07] It just makes sense. If he's omnipresent and he everywhere, and he's everything, then why would he have a gender? It doesn't make sense. Whatever. Yeah. Like why would he limit himself? Oh God, it's, he wouldn't limit himself if he'd limited less. Okay. I'm not, that's why it's like I, people were like, yeah, women are in God's image, but don't let him do anything.

[01:19:20] I'm like, why? Why? Like, why are you just gonna cut half a God off to what I'm like if he invented this, whatever, like why would he. Okay. I just say he, because that's what I'm used to, but I don't really think that, just know that. Okay, everybody. Yeah, no, it is. The one thing I've learned about divinity throughout time is that they will absolutely come to you however, like you will pass.

[01:19:43] Proceed. Yeah. So like Gabriel, everyone sees Gabriel as like a girl angel. I always see Gabriel as a dude. It's entirely up to what will, cause they don't have time. They're like, listen, I don't care girl, boy, what? What color am I wearing? I don't care. And then it'll just pop in. They got more important things to think of.

[01:19:55] Talk. I know. And I have one request of angels, please don't come to me in your [01:20:00] screen. Weird eyeball for me. I'm going to get nervous. So I've only had, yeah. I've only had angels a few times be like, shut up. And then they just put the whole eyeball thing out there and I'm like, oh my God. Fine fine.

[01:20:09] Yeah. I can't do this. I'm so sorry. Just pretend you're people or look like people and I'll be fine. But. The whole, I've never seen a spinning eyeball or a thousand tongues or whatever cuz I can't. And they know me so they know I can't handle it. Thank you guys. Okay. Exactly though. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, we know our girl, she can't do this.

[01:20:29] I'm like, thank you. So at the age of 60 our girl went on tour. God told her to get out of seclusion. He said, stop sitting in the convent all day, girl. Everybody needs to hear you. And she's no problem. God, I'm on it. So she went on tour up and down Ryan land, a k a, the German territory at the time lecturing to pact houses of nuns and mugs.

[01:20:52] And she was just like you were talking about before Sarah, she was considered herself a female warrior. And she said, actually I think that women are [01:21:00] more spiritual than men, which reminds me of. If you go to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, you'll see that the men's section is much bigger than the women's section.

[01:21:10] And people are like, oh, that's just discrimination. But actually it's a fact that the belief is that women are closer to God than men, so they don't have to pray as much. So they're like, oh, you guys don't need as big of a space because you don't have to do these. Men are a hot ass mess. They need to be praying constantly.

[01:21:27] They're like, ladies, you just come when you're done. Dang. No, but I don't wanna, I, I don't wanna say one's more spiritual than the other, but it is very much like you look at the world and you look at who caused most of the problems, and you're hello? Oh guys, sorry.

[01:21:41] There might be some work to be done here. Exactly. Actually so so she also did something, another thing. She was really a pioneer. Another thing women didn't do that was a lot of women, you don't really see it now either, but. How many times do you see Exorcisms done? By the church, but it, she did exorcisms.

[01:21:56] She even did one where she was like, you go [01:22:00] get seven priests to come just because I want them to see what I'm about to do. That's literally what she said. Oh my God. She said, I don't need help. I just want them to see me do it. Just strapp them to a chair and be like, you watch now, guess what? I'm like, dear God, you're my queen.

[01:22:15] She was such a boss, dude. She would just do this shit and like this one got her in trouble at the end. But yeah, she would just go out and be like, I don't care witness. She's watch me hold my beer. She was German. She loved a beer. She, so during her life, like at the end it got bad where she was being accused of stuff.

[01:22:34] But in the Be before that, people were just kinda like shitting on her, but also because she was like friends with the Pope. So like, how much shit are you gonna talk about? This lady, when she's friends with Pope, you can't talk too much. At the end, people started to be a little weird about it, but. So she actually had a lot of miracles happen after her death.

[01:22:51] And one day I'm gonna do an episode about how people become saints, just cuz it's interesting. But the part about she never officially became a saint [01:23:00] because apparently they kept trying to start the process, but it took so damn long that they couldn't like, so he, but they the church officially said in 2012, Pope Benedict.

[01:23:12] Ugh. Pope Benedict said that. He said, it's fine, you guys can think of her as a same, we can venerate her cuz she has an equivalent canonization. Oh. And then she also was labeled a doctor of the church, which is a big deal. Yeah. Yes. No, but say it took a thousand years. But Doctor of the church is such a baller title.

[01:23:33] It's like they're saints and that's great. But Doctor of the church means she contributed some intense and important stuff to the church overall as a doctrine. So it's Bitch. Yes. You know what I mean? Like all these people were like, oh, but that's just to say she molded this a little bit with her teachings.

[01:23:49] Yes. Okay. She did. And she, and if you like history, you might think to yourself she was in the Catholic church, but she was German. This is way before Martin Luther and [01:24:00] shit. So just remember that these, they were Catholic at this time. Yes. She was a doctor of the church.

[01:24:04] Immediate doctor. There's only like 37, I think. I read doctors, people consider doctors of the church, and this is a title given by the Catholic Church to Saints. Recognized as having made a significant, like you just said, significant contribution to theology or doctrine through research study or writing.

[01:24:20] So obviously she did cuz she did mad cool shit. And she was a lot of different popes have acknowledged her as being just super relevant and super great person that was part of the church and brought so, so much. Like even the study, even scientists saying she brought so much just to the study of science cuz she wrote down all that herbal shit that I guess nobody had really, and that's the other problem when it comes to quote unquote witches and stuff like that.

[01:24:45] Like you said before, a lot of these. Knowledge was handed down through women healers. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. It wasn't usually men, it was women. Why? Because women had babies. Women's had the taking care of kids. Yeah. [01:25:00] And who got sick and shit. They were already need to know that.

[01:25:02] Yeah. They were cooking and stuff too. So if you go out and forage for something to eat, I mean you could forage for like plants too. To drink and tea. Like they just knew stuff because they had always been harvesting these certain materials for whatever reasons. But, actually I just watched a whole video from Esoterica on YouTube who is really cool.

[01:25:19] He's a rabbi and a professor I think that does this kind of stuff. But let's talk about how like, Even in like in the 15 hundreds, like this one German dude was like, why are we burning all these women for witches? Meanwhile, like there are court magicians like John d and stuff who are like doing astrology and like all this stuff, and they're just, they're fine with all their fancy angel magics and whatever, but this woman who's I don't know, just minding your business.

[01:25:42] Yeah, like what do you, okay, so yeah, there was a lot like, oh my god, Christian ceremonial magic and court magicians is like a whole nother thing. Oh, queen Elizabeth had a court magician and no one talks about it. I've gotta read all about that now. Thank you for my next rabbit hole. Yeah, it's there's a lot going on.

[01:25:59] It's a lot. It's so [01:26:00] annoying. Everything about history is so annoying. It's so literally, that's why every time I read stuff I'm like, what?

[01:26:09] I love history because it's out. People say, oh, it doesn't matter cuz it happened so long ago. It matters because if you read it, it's bonkers. Like so many things happen and you're like, huh, what? And then the reason people, I feel like people would be less a mess. If you read history and you understood why we do things it all contributes to why we do things the way we do them.

[01:26:34] Why we're mad about the things we're mad about now. Why certain people are mad about like certain things and certain people are mad about different things. It is all historical context. So if you understand that it also bridges a gap between different types of people cuz you can understand different people and why this person might be mad.

[01:26:50] Even when it comes to, I'm not gonna get into it, but even like the American political system and why. Certain people in the south, in these [01:27:00] conservative areas think this way and the why these people like it makes sense when you see it historically. It might not be right, but you can understand something about it.

[01:27:08] And even going back just to our conversation about the different types of Christianity, like when you know history and not just again people, you see this on Wichita all the time and now like I feel like I have to be careful around this because I am I idea as a Christian, but like I look at the Pagan side of Wichita and I'm like, Y'all need to read a book.

[01:27:24] Like you gotta, you guys gotta need three books actually, because they just say the most inane, a historical nonsense. And it's guys, when you actually study the history of Christianity as a religion, how other people viewed them like the Roman Empire before and after, it was like, then you understand that you're not mad at Christianity, you're mad at Roman imperialism really is the biggest problem.

[01:27:41] So it's I don't know I just, I've seen people say that like Santa is actually Odin and like all this kind of just crazy shit. Oh yeah, that's not true guys. Yes. No, like sleep near is actually the one pulling the sled. No, baby. Like what? So I, I'll every year we have the same conversation that no Easter is not stolen from Paganism.

[01:27:58] Oh, that's the other one. [01:28:00] Oh my God. Yeah. Every year we have to have this discussion about how actually Nazis were on that train, so don't be on that train if you're not a Nazi. Like the whole thing every single year. But they keep doing it. They keep doing it. And also the thing the conversation that I don't wanna have anymore.

[01:28:15] Is that like we can all just collectively understand that there are certain holidays that line up with certain Pagan holidays for specific reasons and it's fine. It's, and it's, yeah. I mean it's like literally I remember someone put it so succinctly, they're like, guys, no one culture like copyrighted a spring festival.

[01:28:31] Please, right? What do you, fine. Like Passover is a spring centered thing cuz it happens in the spring. Easter follows Passover cuz that was Jesus's last meal was the Passover meal. Like it's not about some random ass bunny rabbit and like the, some goddess ster who has one source that doesn't even hold up.

[01:28:50] Please. And also it's just fine. Like just don't Yeah. And don't worry. Yeah. It's almost like this is another thing again, the a historicism I'm, the way people talk about [01:29:00] Christians has me thinking that I. They, I, they visualize, I'm coming off a spaceship that like Christians just boop in here and there they were.

[01:29:06] And it's no. As the religion spread, that one person who was celebrating the spring equinox as a pagan yesterday is now celebrating Easter as a Christian. Today. It's the same person. So they're not gonna forget, they're not gonna forget 25 years of custom and tradition. No. They're like in one day, like Yeah.

[01:29:22] They're like, oh. It's the same way how Sure. All over the world, people celebrate, people who celebrate Christmas have different cultural themes around Christmas. They do different things culturally. Cause of their culture. It's literally fine. There's, they're like, but Christmas trees. Yeah.

[01:29:38] Cause people decorated trees, so let them decorate trees. Who cares? And he looks actually really funny. It's actually really funny is that it's actually Martin Luther, like Protestant Martin Luther who came up with Christmas trees. That, that Oh, I didn't know that was, yeah. So he ba the story goes that like he was looking up at the stars and saw them through the pine tree branches.

[01:29:54] And he thought, wow, this is really pretty. So he cut down a tree, put it in his house and put candles in it. Cause that's really fire safe. But [01:30:00] oh my gosh, mark be careful, literate. But he did that and that's where the idea of a Christmas tree came from. Cuz I know sure as hell, my people didn't have that.

[01:30:06] Slovenians didn't do Christmas trees until like Austrians and Germans brought it over Before then they would whip the shit out of adults with Hazel switches. Like kids would go door to door and whip the piss outta you with a hazel switch cuz it would bring good luck on the winter's tits. Okay, no problem.

[01:30:20] Yeah, so it's we didn't keep that one where that one go. Cause that's actually kinda hilarious. Yeah. Like Ding Dog is small child just beating the shit outta you with Hazel. So actually, and this is the last thing I, the story I will tell, but so my fiance's from Nigeria and he, there's this celebration, it's like a festival in nature Nigeria where the, they dress up in, it's called masquerade, but there's a special name for it.

[01:30:44] I can't remember it. But it's a masquerade and every these people dress up, but some of them. It's voodoo. So it's magic because you can see that I've seen videos and he's seen it too when he was there. Like they'll put these costumes on nothing and they'll move. And there's nothing Oh [01:31:00] yeah, I've seen that.

[01:31:00] Yeah. There's nothing under it. So anyway, so the thing is you have to keep away because if you look at them in the eye or you get too close, they'll whip the shit outta you. So just reminding me of that, you'll get beat up by these maade spirits. So just stay away. Don't go not good. No. Yeah. And like all the cult all the cultures have that, like a comparable thing.

[01:31:18] It's not like exactly the same, but it's similar enough. Have you heard of a Compass d Yeah. So in Austria, they they have a thing called Krampus Loft, which means like the Krampus run. And what happens is everyone dresses up as these big hairy goat devils and God forbid they catch you in the street that night, they will kick the shit.

[01:31:36] And so everyone goes out and they're they play like basically like Spanish bull rides basically. But these guys are not bulls. They have hands, they can catch you and they can drag you down the road. So it's like the same kind of idea. And like I remember at one point Austria had to like, literally like when there was all the migrants coming and all the refugees coming they literally had to take them aside to listen, we did some really fucked up shit around Christmas. If you don't wanna do that, you are free to like, not [01:32:00] participate. But keep in mind that You may get caught by a big hairy go demon if you go outside. And these poor families were like, what?

[01:32:09] That's it's so bad. So I was like, oh, I hope that went well, not knowing. And you go out to get milk and then here comes this giant hairy demon with a big red flaming tongue and you're just like, oh. You're like, oh, par. Interesting. This country, it's, there's a civil, there's, and this actually made the news the other day in Nigeria again.

[01:32:29] Have there's this one festival celebrated by Yuba people. And if other PE so is in this festival there, it's like a cleansing kind of situation for the year so they go down the street, there's a special group of men who are part of this celebration.

[01:32:45] Now nobody is allowed outside during the hours that these dudes are outside. The problem being is if anybody else from not that ethnic group wants to come outside, it's a problem. Everyone's pissed. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's see? Yeah. So that's why I'm like wonder sometimes how they're like [01:33:00] these refugees felt as they're being told that Hey, the street's full of demons on Christmas.

[01:33:04] Sorry. Like I know. They're like, what? Oh my God, watch the Right. But that's what I'm saying. It's it's inconvenient for everybody. Cuz you think in the city Sav has something similar around Easter. Not Easter, it's actually around Ash Wednesday. So Mardi Gras, like that time in Eastern Sylvania specifically is like this big festival where they dress up like these weird, like bird dudes with horns.

[01:33:26] Okay. And they have big cowbells on, and so they scare winter away by being super noisy. But they will also probably Kick you up a little bit. And also they will go door to cost you for sausage and beer. And so it's just yeah, like they'll knock on your door. They'll be like, where sausage?

[01:33:40] And so you give it to them and then they shake their bells and they scare winter away, and then they run off to Rob the next house. So we just be doing the shit. This is why I love learning about different cultures, because every single culture in the world has some weird shit that when you ask, you're like, what?

[01:33:56] And this is why. This is why you can only ever judge a [01:34:00] culture by its cultural standard because yeah, that shit sounds weird to me. But then like, When, like in my culture, we have, like I said, there's a stool that's in Ghana that has part of my soul in it, and I fullheartedly believe that yeah, there, there's, so this is where I really feel like it connects people, right?

[01:34:16] Cause it's all we, in Nigeria we have these like spirits that dance and move on their own. And it's in Austria we got a whole ass demons. So same. Hey. Yeah. And and like we have weird folk tales too. There's a folk tale about a fish that was gonna drown the world.

[01:34:28] And Jesus said, Hey, don't. And so it didn't like, what? So that's the lady folk tale about the fish that Jesus was like, Hey, reconsider, thanks. He's oh sorry. Yeah. I just went back to the, yeah, literally. He's okay. Yeah, that's good argument there. So I'm like, this is just a weird ass, like folk tale.

[01:34:44] I don't know. There's so many things that like, I feel like because it's, everything's modern now too. Like they, they get away from it. I don't know. Southern Europe is still very religious. So East. But Northern Europe is like, oh, we're so modern. We're so chic, and we are like, much better than, Europe's always been weird, right?

[01:34:58] So Europe's always been as a [01:35:00] whole hostile to non-Europeans. And then Northern Europeans have always been hostile to like Eastern, its Southern Europeans. Yeah. So it's very weird, right? If you're Slavic, if you're Italian, if you're Greek, they're just like, ew. Which is you are, I, it's very weird.

[01:35:12] Yeah. It's like England does not get to speak. Germany does not get to speak shut. I don't know that we're all modern and we all don't do this stuff anymore. It's now you miss the fact that everyone has some crazy shit going on in their culture and we're all people doing weird things like, and it's fun.

[01:35:29] It's, yeah. It's like that's what, like the thing with the. Little bird people that's that's Mardi Gras. So everyone's dressing up. Yeah, they like parade a big witch statue through the street. Cause there's like a story of a witch. Oh my God. This is a little just quick story. There was a hill in Sylvania where there was smoke coming up for whatever reason.

[01:35:44] So they thought, oh my god, witches must live up there. So they found a cave. They tried to put a boulder in front of it, and then the boulder rolled down the hill and smashed a house. Oh no. And they were like, oh yeah. And then they're like nevermind. Carry on ma'am. Oh no. So dude, I could tell you so many [01:36:00] stories about my people doing dumb stuff.

[01:36:01] Like just insanely stupid things. I think like dad, every culture has some stuff that everybody would be like, Wait, why do you do that? Everybody? Yeah. We just do that. That's what we do. It's not a problem. Stop. Now they're like they parade like a statue of that witch through the street on whatever, and they're like, here's our witch who broke our house.

[01:36:23] So it's yay. Oh my God. Oh, that brings us to the end and I'm so glad we got to end with the witch who broke their house. But Sarah, where would you like people to find you on the internet? Yeah. So I can, I'm everywhere honestly, but if I do 'em the most of my stuff on TikTok and.

[01:36:42] On all of my, I got YouTube, I got Twitter, I got Instagram, and I always have the link in my bio that has all my stuff. If you wanna get to my author website, see my writings, book of tar reading whatever, that's all there. If you want to go see my Patreon or anything else I got going on, it's all in there.

[01:36:58] It's all just like neatly packaged. [01:37:00] So that's great. And all your links will be in the show notes. So anybody wants to find Sarah, you'll be able to find her. It'll be very simple. Like she said, it's neatly packaged. You can find it. So I just wanna thank you Sarah, so much for being here and having a great, fun conversation about some of this stuff that could probably be not hildy, cuz we love her, but narcissism could be boring, but you made it fun so it's fine.

[01:37:23] It's a lot. Yeah. But no, it could be boring and confusing, which it still is a little confusing, but we made it a good time. So everybody thank you guys too for listening. So this again, we are time with the divide on Instagram and Facebook, maybe TikTok if I figure out how to use it. And then you can like us, you can subscribe, you can, so you always get notifications when you'll get the podcast and you can give us a five star rating on any channel.

[01:37:46] And if you wanna follow me, Ashley, I'm Sankofa, h s a n k o f a h s on Instagram and Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. And I think that's it. So everybody have a wonderful week. [01:38:00] Bye.