Fat Sandwiches, Tarot History and The Golden Dawn with Rhonda Alin

Rhonda

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi everybody. Welcome to Dine With a Divine. I'm Ashley, your host, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical and all that good stuff. So on today's episode, we're gonna talk about the history of tarot and maybe ancient beginnings of our modern religion. , .

[00:00:21] Welcome to the show. I hope everybody had a great week. And if you didn't, I hope it gets way better for you. Today we have a fantastic guest. Rhonda, Alan, she is a psychic and reader of both Oracle and Tarot cards, as well as an instructor and the founder of Northern New Jersey Tarot.

[00:00:38] She purchased her first deck of divination cards at the age of 12 and has worked with them ever since. Rhonda has studied tarot with some of the most respected and accomplished readers, authors, and deck designers in the tarot community. Hey Rhonda, how are you? I am doing

[00:00:53] Rhonda: well, Ashley. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:57] Yes, this is

[00:00:57] Ashley: exciting. I know. I'm excited too.[00:01:00] I know I met you years ago, I think at readers Readers Studio. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. I was totally blanking for a second. I was like, what? Yeah, no, you're right.

[00:01:08] Rhonda: Yes. Oh my God. That was a long time ago.

[00:01:12] Ashley: Yes. Oh my gosh.

[00:01:14] And I feel since then, like you have we're gonna talk all about you for a minute, but you have this group Northern New Jersey, taro. And somebody even the other day was like, have you heard of this? I was like, yeah, I've heard of her. She's super nice. So it's thank you. Yeah.

[00:01:28] And I know in your group, you, it's really great. Like you have guests come in and it's just a really good group of people. Okay. Let's just start at the beginning. I'm getting ahead of myself. Yeah. Okay. So you said you started reading at the age of 12?

[00:01:43] Rhonda: I bought my first deck at 12.

[00:01:45] Okay. I literally did, took my allowance money and, and I remember this vividly. So my family's originally from New York, but we moved to the Midwest to Michigan when I was 10. Okay. And I remember. [00:02:00] Taking my allowance money and being all excited because I was going to buy a deck of Toro cards.

[00:02:07] This was my, this is my focus. And what I ended up picking up was not a deck of Toro cards. It actually ended up being a deck of Le Normand cards. Oh. Leor MUN is a different divination system. But I didn't know I was 12 and nobody was guiding me along, but I picked this up and it was that little orange box that most everyone, and I don't have the deck handy, so

[00:02:28] Ashley: I can't Oh, I think I know what you're talking about.

[00:02:30] Yeah. That little witches.

[00:02:32] Rhonda: Deck or whatever. So that was the deck that I had. I was disappointed because the cards did not look like what I had envisioned, and, but I still went, I remember this, sitting in my bedroom with the curtains, drawn candles on the floor. And now y'all have to reme. I'm a bit older, so this is the seventies, this is the early seventies.

[00:02:53] And so incense in the house was pretty common. A few hippies in the world. But so I had my candles [00:03:00] going. I had my incense going and I was sitting on the floor throwing cards, trying to divine. Wow. I had no idea what I was doing, but it was fun.

[00:03:08] Ashley: So before you got that deck, you got Leonard Norman Deck, but you ended up, did you hear of tarot?

[00:03:12] Yes. Were you always interested in spirituality, more new age stuff? I'd

[00:03:18] Rhonda: have to say, yeah. And a lot of it. Had to do with my oldest brother. My oldest brother was, and to this day was all into esoteric stuff, so I would, he was off at college when I was a little kid. He's many years older than I am.

[00:03:34] And when he would come home, we were having conversations about Egypt and the Egyptian pantheon of gods and eat, extra terrestrials and spirit and all this kind of stuff. So this was conversation in the home. My mother even though she would never call herself witch, she would, she was all into that stuff.

[00:03:52] Yeah. Yeah, when I, and I saw the cards first in film, it had to be in a movie. It wasn't somebody who was [00:04:00] working with the cards that I knew. It was in a movie somewhere, and I'm gonna say probably the Wolf Man. Okay. Yeah, that was probably where I saw it, but the. The interaction with the metaphysical world, I'd say started back then and influenced heavily by my oldest brother.

[00:04:18] I snagged his copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. When I was probably it was in. Fifth, sixth grade, fifth or sixth grade. But I was 11. I skipped a grade or two. So I was young and I had snagged his group, it, his book. And I was trying to learn how to write in hieroglyphics. You, oh my god.

[00:04:42] Ashley: I

[00:04:42] Rhonda: remember my teacher asking me to write, cause I was carrying in the book of the Egyptian book of the Dead to School. Here I am. Oh my God. I love it. So yeah, I was doing that weirdo stuff then.

[00:04:52] Ashley: Yeah, I feel like that's how all the grades start is like doing some weird stuff like that. People are like, what's that?

[00:04:58] You're like, I don't know. It's the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I [00:05:00] don't care. That's it. Everyone, everyone else is reading Babysitters club, but you're like, no, I'm reading the fiction book of a Ted. It's awesome. Yeah, it was crazy. Oh my God. Okay, that started everything off. And then did you just keep reading and trying to learn more about it?

[00:05:16] And then, okay, so my big question too is when did you get a tarot card deck? And then were you just, were you like, oh, now I can do both now

[00:05:24] Rhonda: that when I first got my first deck, and like many people, so this is 2023, I got my first deck in. Seriously working with the cards in the mid, in mid 9 93 maybe.

[00:05:41] Early nineties. It was the early 1990s. Yeah, it was the early 1990s. That's when I first got my deck and I started trying to learn how to really read with the cards. That was, yeah. That was challenging because, working out of a book was difficult. It wasn't [00:06:00] until I had my first real class that I started grasping it. Yeah. 93, I think it was when I got my first deck.

[00:06:07] Ashley: Okay. Nice. And then you just kept going with it and learning, more. And, it's, it is really funny that you said that, like it is really hard to re, to learn with a book. Yeah. I realized, like when I got older and I knew more about it, I was like, wait, actually it makes it way harder, like when you, yeah.

[00:06:24] When you learn more of the like, number associations or you learn about like the journey, like the fool's journey and that kind of thing, it makes it easier to learn it that way. Yeah. Than just going through it and learning all the definitions. Cuz as, as like a professional reader, your definitions change based on who you're reading for.

[00:06:42] Based on your experience. Based on their experience. So yeah, reading out through a book is a good point. That is really hard. It was

[00:06:50] Rhonda: hard. And it gets, it's dis gets discouraging for li I got discouraged. Yes. And I had a good friend of mine who literally said, don't give up on them.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] Keep trying. And then she said, I'm going to do a weekend workshop. You have to come. And that's really what got me hooked. And that I still have those notes. I still, I talk about that even in my own classes. I still have the notes from my very first weekend intensive. Oh my gosh,

[00:07:17] Ashley: that's so fun.

[00:07:18] Rhonda: That was like so what are we, 2020.

[00:07:20] Okay. This is 23. So yeah, it was. 20, I'm sorry, 1996, maybe. 95, 96. 96. It was 96.

[00:07:31] Ashley: Okay. So you've been a seasoned treater. That's awesome. Yeah. When did you start teaching and that kind of thing? And Oh

[00:07:39] Rhonda: gosh, that was not the, actually I started with the meetup group. So our meetup, Northern New Jersey tore, and as I like to say, I was the facilitator, I did not want to say instructor because we were a bunch of, people who were passionate about the cards. And that started we're in year eight now. Okay. We're in year eight. I, [00:08:00] yeah. And so we started eight years ago.

[00:08:03] It was, a bunch of. I was terrified when I pushed the button to create the meetup group. I was like, who's gonna wanna come and hang out with me and read cards? I don't know. But yeah, it was a bunch of people we got together and we started the first meeting. It was just, Hey, what do we want this to look like?

[00:08:22] What do we wanna do with this? And we decided we're going to pick a book and work with it. And one of the first people in the group who I'm still good friends with today, who also reads professionally at this point, she said I think we should work with, and she mentioned Mary Kay Greer's book.

[00:08:39] To Roe for yourself. Okay. And we started with that one. And it was a great entry. It was a great entry for, I had already gone through that book in my own previous, just my own study. And that is a great book. I thought, fabulous. Let's work with that one. And yeah, that's how we got started as a group.

[00:08:57] And then now, then I start, then I [00:09:00] actually structured formal classes. But that came a few years after, so I've been teaching classes now for about five years. Wow. And I have shifted from, online in person to also virtual. We have new offerings coming up pretty soon, actually. I'm doing a lot of work on that right now.

[00:09:19] Oh wow. And yeah. That's been a lot of passion and fun. And it's a, it is a lot of fun. It's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun. Yeah. What

[00:09:30] Ashley: would you say is like your favorite thing about tarot in general? What's your favorite thing about it?

[00:09:40] Rhonda: Oh my God, there's several things. First of all, I am really excited the story within the cards.

[00:09:45] It's and, It's a living divination system. I always say that also with my classes is it is a living divination system. And as we approach the cards, every time [00:10:00] we pick up that deck and shuffle, and the story begins to unfold, as we start to throw and the images start to hit us as the reader, right?

[00:10:09] As soon as you throw that card and you see the two or three cards lining up and the image just starts to flow in you it's the excitement of that message as it starts to to congeal. Yeah. Come together. And you're a reader, so you don't, it's like for me, it's like I see the message as a whole and then I have to deconstruct it.

[00:10:32] Yeah. Put it into words and share it with the client and that. But that even that is fun. I love working with the clients and seeing how. As we start going through the reading, and it's participatory for me as we're going through the reading and as they start to see, oh, I understand that, that makes sense and we pull out the message that they need to receive.

[00:10:57] Yes. And then working with, and [00:11:00] then working with my students and when that light bulb moment hits them, And you can see it in their eyes. And as they start doing an interpretation of a spread and it is it's wow, they've got it. They really get it. All of those things. I could be exhausted before starting a class and then two hours later I'm like, wow, that was great.

[00:11:22] Ashley: Isn't that though so fun? Yes. Oh my. And that's how, you know you love something when you're like, I am so tired, but I'm gonna go just do this. And then you get there and you're like, I'm so excited. Exactly.

[00:11:34] Rhonda: It's re you understand? I understand. Yes.

[00:11:37] Ashley: That's it. I totally, and like I love that moment in a reading when you see the client be like, yeah, that makes sense.

[00:11:45] That makes sense. Is my favorite phrase because I'm like, I get even though and I'm sure you know this, like as many times, as many readings as you've done, When it makes sense, you still get excited? Yes, you do. Oh, good.

[00:11:58] Rhonda: Exactly. [00:12:00]

[00:12:01] Ashley: Absolutely. I know. I always think they're gonna be like, did you think it wasn't gonna make sense?

[00:12:06] Yeah, it,

[00:12:08] Rhonda: you just, all we're here to throw the cards and interpret what we see. Yeah. And that's the, it is a little nerve-wracking. It is a little nerve-wracking. Every time you throw the cards, you're like, okay, let's see. Am I getting the right messages? It's, am I picking up what is really the most important message for my client right now?

[00:12:31] Yeah. Because, we funnel that through ourselves and every reader's a little different in how we pull that information in and interpret it. Can some days be spot on and other days can be a little wonky cuz maybe we're just not connecting as, and you were, maybe it was a reader studio class that you remember.

[00:12:52] I remember somebody saying, oh hey, the wifi went down. I'm not getting the connection. That was George. That was George Corey. I missed him to him. Oh, he was [00:13:00] a cool guy. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you get a little, it is nerve wracking. But it is great when you get that Oh yeah, I understand.

[00:13:08] Yes, I know what you're talking about. Perfect. Oh my

[00:13:11] Ashley: gosh. So I'm just thinking, and I'm gonna ask you to like, if you've ever had a reading, maybe that made you nervous or anything, but this is quick. So one time I was doing these readings and this woman, like locally was having these girls night out events.

[00:13:24] So she's oh, we're a hire reader. I was like, okay, cool. And then at that point I was always doing, I like to do readings outside. Yes. I now don't always like to do that because it stressed me out, but yeah, it can be so good if you're in the right, venue, it's super fun.

[00:13:37] But sometimes if you're in a little more random of a venue where there's a lot of different people who don't really know what you're doing or. At all. It can be a little stressful. So I was doing these girls handout events, and this one was like, they had all these like little vendors. It was in an event hall Uhhuh.

[00:13:54] So there was a fashion show and we're like, cute, everyone was doing these little lingerie fashion show. And then [00:14:00] all of a sudden these dudes come out and they were strippers. And I was like, okay, great. That's fine. I'm fine with that. Yeah. . So they're strippers and they were stripping and I was like, okay, whatever.

[00:14:10] After the performance was done, this guy, one of the strippers, he comes up to me, he's in his little boxer briefs or whatever, right? And he's you read cards, right? And I'm like, yeah. And he's I need to know if my girlfriend's cheating on me. Oh my gosh. I'm , panicking. Yes.

[00:14:26] Rhonda: We need to do this.

[00:14:28] Ashley: I know. I'm like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. So now I don't remember. Exactly what I got, but I know the devil came up Uhhuh, and I was like, yeah I know whatever it was very indicative that this lady was probably cheating on her boyfriend. So I was like okay. I was like, this card with these other cards, it usually all means.

[00:14:54] Then she might be, and he's I knew it. And he called his other friend over. And then God, yeah. He had a female [00:15:00] friend and a male friend come over and they're all looking and they're like, oh my God, look at that one. It looks so bad. I'm like, oh God. So yeah, I wanted to die.

[00:15:09] I trust the cards, but at the same time I'm like, I might be ending this man's relationship tonight. And I feel very bad about it.

[00:15:17] Rhonda: Your job is you're delivering a difficult message, but all you can do is like, all I can do is tell you what I'm seeing here. Yes. That's all

[00:15:25] Ashley: I can do.

[00:15:25] I know. I was like that's what I got, so I'm gonna go now. Exactly.

[00:15:31] Rhonda: I'll just see ya. Don't bother calling me again. Please. Don't ever call me. Don't again.

[00:15:37] Ashley: Exactly. So all that being said, is there, cuz like I know a lot of Tarot card readers have maybe their different like likes and dislikes or what they like to answer and what they don't like to answer.

[00:15:49] Do you have anything that you're like, oh, I hate when people ask me this question, or, I love when people ask me this question.

[00:15:55] Rhonda: Yeah. And that's, that, that's legitimate. [00:16:00] It's yes. And I think as is the case, as you, as reading styles change over the years, that question has morphed. Yeah.

[00:16:09] I used to hate when people would ask me couples, when couples would come and say, can you do a couple's reading? Oh my

[00:16:16] Ashley: God, I hate couples. And again, you're right. I see what you're saying. And you're like, I hate couples.

[00:16:20] Rhonda: Yeah. I, it's still not something I enjoy doing. But I do say, if you are comfortable with your partner sitting here while I read.

[00:16:31] I'm reading for you, and you're asking your partner to sit here. If you're comfortable, I'm going to read for you, and I let them know, whatever comes up in the cards is what I'm going to share. Since my responsibility as a reader is to give you the best possible interpretation of that spread as is possible.

[00:16:52] You're so professional. And that's it. Now there are some, you'll get the Oh, ubiquitous. Oh, can you just, I just wanna know about my [00:17:00] health. Is there anything I need to be aware of? And then I have to do the disclaimer. Yeah. Yeah. Say, I'm not a doctor. I don't play one on tv.

[00:17:06] This is, I can just, we can look at what the cards want to share, but you need to go to a professional for that. Yeah.

[00:17:14] Ashley: I do give the

[00:17:14] Rhonda: disclaimer. Having said that, if there's something that shows up that I can say this looks like something you should, address. Look at, look into.

[00:17:24] I share that and I can say I've, legitimately there have been clients who've come back to me to say, that was spot on cuz I found a growth or I found a thing. And the good news, oh yes, I am pregnant now. Yeah. Things like that. Those are things that I am grateful that I am doing the difficult thing.

[00:17:47] Again, you have to give the disclaimer you do. In my opinion, because I'm not a medical professional, but if I do see something, I will say something. And then I do ask, go see your, go see [00:18:00] your primary, go see whomever. But people have done that and listened and have done that. And they have had outcomes that they, things that they needed to address and that was important.

[00:18:11] Ashley: Okay. Awesome. All right. We're gonna, we're gonna go to our next section of the show. Yeah. Now that Rhonda have told us all about her. Amazing terror practice. Okay. So the first thing we're gonna do, so we have a dish of the week, every week, and this week we have a couple dishes because we're in New Jersey.

[00:18:31] So we're getting very jersey right now.

[00:18:33] Rhonda: I'm good. I'm good with that.

[00:18:35] Ashley: Okay. For our dishes of the week, we have a pork roll or a tailor ham, as some people say. Egg and cheese, which is delicious. I personally like a bacon, egg, and cheese in the morning. Yeah. I'm not really into pork roll, but like I'll do it.

[00:18:49] Rhonda: Yeah. I'm with you on that.

[00:18:51] Ashley: Okay. I'm with you on that. And we got some salt water taffy, which has nothing to do with salt water, just so every it's good. [00:19:00] It's very good. They just, when it's fresh, yeah. When they just made it, it's really good. It's only called saltwater taffy cuz they sell it at the beach, but it has nothing to do with saltwater, so don't worry, it's not salty.

[00:19:12] And then I learned something this week too. Okay. So we're gonna have some Campbell soup, which I don't actually really but Campbell Soup Company began in Camden in 1869.

[00:19:23] Rhonda: I did not know that. Me either.

[00:19:26] Ashley: And the headquarters of Campbell is, Still in Camden, New Jersey.

[00:19:30] Rhonda: I did not know that. I know.

[00:19:32] Ashley: I was like, huh, love that dish.

[00:19:35] I know. Exactly. Campbell soup's, one of those things you can always add to other foods. So don't like it for that. And then we're gonna end the evening with some fat sandwiches because if you wanna have a heart attack, you can go to Rutgers campus in New Brunswick and you can go to these food trucks and they'll sell you sandwiches that are full of whatever you want.

[00:19:57] Yeah. There may [00:20:00] be fri like fries, mozzarella steaks, cheese, steak, all in one sandwich. And that's what we call fat sandwiches. Yeah. If you're not from New Jersey and you've never had this experience, you just need to experience once. You can't actually eat them more than once a year. It's not good for you.

[00:20:15] It's very unhealthy. So don't do that. But you can just do it. Go to New Brunswick and you can get it. 2:00 AM You're drunk. You're hungry. Go eat one of those sandwiches. You'll feel so much better after. Oh my

[00:20:27] Rhonda: God. I was afraid. I'll be honest I was, I was introduced and I was like, yeah, I can't,

[00:20:37] Ashley: I'm the wor every time I've had one, I sit there and I pick out the food cuz I'm weird like that. I'm like, I all these things individually, but I don't want to eat them together. Yes. So I'll be like, I'll eat all the fries. It'll eat the mozzarellas snacks. Right on.

[00:20:52] Rhonda: That would be me too. Yes.

[00:20:54] That's not weird. I get it. I un I get

[00:20:56] Ashley: it. Yeah. It's too many things in No I can't. I don't like [00:21:00] that. M okay, . What I'm gonna do first is plug myself, cuz that's what we do sometimes on this podcast. So if you enjoy this show, You can stop what you're doing.

[00:21:12] If you're driving, don't stop driving. You can do it later. But if you are home or somewhere where you want to, you can go and give us a five star reading on wherever you listen to this, whether it's Apples podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast Stitch or whatever. And you can go and also follow us on social media if you'd like.

[00:21:31] So I'm at Dine with the Divine on Instagram, and I'm dying with the Divine on Facebook, and I'm Dine with the Divine on TikTok. I think I only have one TikTok video right now, but by the time the show comes out, I'll probably have more. I'll try my best. And if if you would like to suggest any episodes have any comments or you have any stories that you want told, you can always email me at dime the divine pod gmail.com and

[00:21:55] oh, and if you ever wanna leave me a tip in the show notes, you [00:22:00] can go down and there is a link where you can leave me a tip. You can leave me $1, you can leave me $5. You can leave me your family fortune, whatever you like. It doesn't matter. It's up to you. Okay. So our next section of the show.

[00:22:12] Yeah, our next section we're gonna is like a little tee time. Rhonda is a professional tarot card reader, so we're gonna talk about tarot and we're gonna talk. I realized that a couple episodes ago we had talked about tarot and I was like, huh, what if people have no idea what I'm talking about? This is a spirituality ish podcast, but some people may not know about tarot.

[00:22:30] So I was like let's have a little overview with a professional. Why not make sense? Right on. Yeah. So your life one is ta let's say, let's little start at the baby beginning. So what is ta? It's a form of cardo, Nancy, which is divination using cards. So you may see there's lots of different forms of cardo.

[00:22:48] Nancy. There's tarot and then Ron had mentioned earlier, we have Le Norman, which is a French, right? It's French. Yeah. Duh. It's called Luman.

[00:22:58] Rhonda: It's French, but there's [00:23:00] history there. It comes actually that the Le Norman deck comes out of Germany to begin. Oh, I didn't

[00:23:06] Ashley: know that.

[00:23:07] Okay. All right. So now at some point we're gonna have to do the history of the Norman. So Rhonda, you're gonna have to come back and we're gonna talk about Right on. Right on. Yeah. So we have that some people use playing cards. I know in that like a lot of, I've seen a lot of like different Caribbean and like Hispanic communities, I've seen them use a lot of playing cards and I think even Roman people sometimes use playing cards, I think,

[00:23:29] okay. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. . So there's what we call 22 Major Connor cards. And then we have 56, what we call minor Connor cards.

[00:23:38] And is my math right? 78? 78. 78 cards. You're good. Wow. I really put 72. Yay. Wow. Look at me. You sound like me.

[00:23:47] Rhonda: Cause they're, ah,

[00:23:48] Ashley: I'm the same way. I'm really just out here making lots of mistakes. Okay. And then in those cards, we have 16 court cards we call them which depending on the deck you use, they'll be called different things.

[00:23:59] But [00:24:00] traditionally you start with a page, then you have the night, then you have the queen, then you have the king And those cards, traditionally, I find that even still for me, it's, they're hard to read.

[00:24:12] Rhonda: Yeah. Yeah. That's the challenging section, that piece right there. Yeah.

[00:24:16] Ashley: Cuz sometimes I'm like, is this a person?

[00:24:18] Is this a feeling? Is this, whatever, it's a lot, but it's a lot. Yeah. But they're, but it's fun. So the cool thing about tarot a lot of people see is that people use it a lot in different ways, and most of the time you'll find that tarot isn't necessarily just used for fortune telling. People use it for self-development people.

[00:24:38] A lot of people use it in like union. I can never say his name is Itk. Yes. That guy Carl Yung psychology, they use it. And it doesn't have any ties to any specific religion or anything like that, but it does have a lot of elements of [00:25:00] different religions within it. Traditionally if you use like the most standard rider weight tarot there's tons of stuff you can find on the internet.

[00:25:09] There's been books written about it where they tell you specifically in each card like what it has to do with different religious elements. And then there's some that are just obvious the devil card and things like that. Yeah. So a little like tarot history, now this.

[00:25:27] I don't know where I found all these facts. So some of these, I don't know if they're completely right, so I'm not gonna read that. So the first thing we're gonna read is that in the 1440s they were seen, they were used as a game in Italy mostly. And the first deck that was made was by the Visconti family.

[00:25:44] So they were very wealthy Italian family at the time, and at this time they used it to play like tei, I think is one of the names of the game, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. And it was seen as like an intellectual game, like something people would play, like [00:26:00] chess or something like that.

[00:26:02] And then in the 17 hundreds, this guy Jean Baptist, T I can't, I'm not French. I'm so sorry. Yeah, that's a crazy name. It Ilia. I'm just gonna say that Ilia, that was his like nickname I think. Yeah, I might not, yeah, I might not be saying it but it's fine. He was a famous French occulus, so he was the first one to write modern interpretation.

[00:26:26] So this is in the 17 hundreds. We're gonna get really into this in a minute, so just hold onto your hats. So then in, 1888, the Golden Dawn was just an occult group. They took really strong interest in the taro and they started using it for divination. And they're actually the ones who started to popularize it.

[00:26:46] And one of the people, actually two people who were members of the Golden Dawn, one guy, his name was ae Wait, and there was another woman named Pamela Coleman Smith. And she was an artist. They started doing they started looking at the [00:27:00] tarot and AE Wait was writing out what he thought everything should look like.

[00:27:04] Pamela Coleman Smith was drawing everything. So when you hear Ryder , Ryder was a publishing company. Smith was Pamela Coleman Smith. But before they sometimes used to call it Ryder Wait, which is not fair because they leave her out. So it was really like, Ryder, wait, Smith or Wait, Smith is better.

[00:27:21] We don't care about the publishers right now. It's not a thing. Yeah. What's more important is that a wait wrote a lot of it, and then Pamela Coleman Smith interpreted it and she's the one who drew it. So that's the most popular deck that you might see. And when you're beginning and you tell me too, Rhonda, what you think.

[00:27:38] But I think. I don't really like reading with it, but I do think it's really important to learn and understand it.

[00:27:46] Yeah,

[00:27:47] Ashley: definitely. Yeah, definitely. Like you can get a deck based on literally anything. So you love cats. You can find a cat tarot, right? You can find if you are, there's a gay man tarot.

[00:27:59] There is an [00:28:00] alien tarot. There's a tarot based on flowers, based on cars, based on literally I don't know about cars. That's a lie, but I'm sure there is one. Yeah, there's gotta

[00:28:09] Rhonda: be, there's one on everything as you're saying. Yeah, a ball, alcohol, everything doors, everything.

[00:28:16] Ashley: Everything.

[00:28:16] I used to And what was the website? You will know what I'm talking about. There used to be a tarot like forum website, Uhhuh, and I used to love it. I think it's called Taro Forum maybe.

[00:28:26] Rhonda: Which one is this? Where you could buy and they sell, they sold a lot of decks on there? Or they no, it

[00:28:31] Ashley: was just like a website was a forum.

[00:28:33] And what they would do is they'd have all different types of, they'd have the section which just like terra decks and you could click on whatever subject. And it would show you different, like maybe nine different cards,

[00:28:43] Rhonda: yeah. I know what you're talking about.

[00:28:45] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I used to love it. It was like a purple. The background of the website was per, you're know what I'm talking about? It's so old. It's so old. It's so old. When I started reading, I would go on that website like every day. You could go on there, you could ask questions to other people who were reading [00:29:00] tarot.

[00:29:00] They would have matchups for oh, if you want to practice like free reading practice with other partners. But I liked it because I just wanted to get different terra card decks. I just became obsessed with getting, oh my God. I have, I have to get this mermaid one and this one based on crystals and all these things.

[00:29:16] There's one based on tattoos. Oh my God. It's it's addictive. It's such a problem. Yeah, it is.

[00:29:24] Rhonda: The number of decks. It's pretty bad. I'm on pause this year, I think this year. No, seriously, this year, I think, and it's almost June, I have only purchased, I've purchased less than a dozen. Oh, that's

[00:29:36] Ashley: good.

[00:29:37] That's good.

[00:29:39] Rhonda: That's good.

[00:29:40] Ashley: I know I had to put myself on pause I think like around like when Covid started, I think I sold, I was like, okay, here's the thing. I love to collect a deck. But then, I have all these decks that other people could enjoy and they're just sitting in my house and some of them like, I'll get decks.

[00:29:59] I used to [00:30:00] have the Alice Tarot, but like the big version.

[00:30:02] Rhonda: Yeah. Oh my God.

[00:30:04] Ashley: Yeah. Which I spent a lot of money on, but it was fine. I was very happy. It's so pretty. Yes. . I did, but, and I still have this small, I bought this big one and a small one, so I still have this small one, but there's so many decks I had that I was like, oh, other people could enjoy this. And I like the imagery. Yeah. But when I used them, I just did not connect.

[00:30:21] Yeah. So I ended up like selling a lot, but yeah. It becomes like an addictive habit to buy taro. It's like a tattoo. Yeah. It's like getting a tattoo. I'm telling you, once you pop the fun, don't stop. It's just how it goes. You are so

[00:30:35] Rhonda: right. You are

[00:30:35] Ashley: so right. I know. It's problematic. So speaking of tarot decks there's different. Lots of different, oh, the last little historical facts we have here is that Alice Crowley, he wrote and created his own version of the tarot card deck, which is mostly similar, but he changed I think it's two cards in the major Ana. He like flips them around.

[00:30:56] The Foth deck is what it's called. And [00:31:00] Crowley is also another subject for another day. Big. We can't go into that right now. So there's different kinds of Deck. So a lot of people use the rider weight smith, which is the standard, and most decks are based off that deck. Yeah. But some people do their own thing, which is cool.

[00:31:16] You have the thought deck, like we said, and then you have the Marais and Visconti decks. Which are usually not so the rider Wade Smith deck, they have like illustrations. So also earlier when Rhonda was talking about making a story it makes it a lot easier, when you have those pictures Yeah.

[00:31:34] To create that storyline when you're doing a reading. I think it takes a lot more practice to use like, What some people call them pip decks or I just would say like unrated cards. So say it's like the card is the 10 of wants, it's literally will just be like 10 wants. It won't be a picture of a, like a person, like looking down and being, it's not all that.

[00:31:59] Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:00] I think it takes a little talent to read like that because you don't have that interpretation right in front of you. And so if you wanna do that, if you wanna get a deck like that, absolutely go ahead. But if you are a beginner, it'll be a lot harder for you to connect and figure it out sometimes if you do that.

[00:32:17] But if you, what do you think, Rhonda? What do you think is your best recommendation for somebody who's Ooh, I really wanna learn ta. What do you think is like the best way for someone to start.

[00:32:29] Rhonda: To start. Yeah, that's, and this, there are several schools of thought. There are people who have started with the th deck.

[00:32:38] And that is their go-to people who've started with the Mae style and that's their go-to. I started with wait Smith, that is my go-to. And that is, I would say the majority of people when they start the journey will start with, and I would recommend, like you said, it's maybe it doesn't end up being your preferred [00:33:00] deck to read with, it may not, but it's a great way to start because.

[00:33:04] So many resources are, use that deck as their source. Yeah. They use it as their foundation. And it is an old deck. We have 1909, we have over a hundred years of working with it and study with it. And the amount, since it does come out of that mystery school, the Golden Dawn Mystery School, there was a lot of there was a lot of research, meditation, and study into all the symbols that are in that deck.

[00:33:34] And using a critical eye, and I'm just gonna say this, if you're starting out inau, it's an easy deck artistically to connect with. Since the art is not that, Intricate. Yeah. But because it is somewhat simple, it's it, again, it's easy to approach. At the same time when you understand that there's so much in every single [00:34:00] aspect of that simple image, you can take years of just digging through the layers with that deck.

[00:34:06] So it's a great way to start and it gives you a lot of substance over time.

[00:34:10] Ashley: Yes. And so funny. Even I I can't, I was looking for this book the other day. I have a book about each card and like how each card and even Rachel Pollock's book, 78 Degrees of Wisdom, 78 Degrees of Wisdom.

[00:34:22] Yeah. I love, that was actually one of the first books I read. Didn't understand it because it's not that complicated, but it's like she's rest and power, Rachel Republic. She's yeah. Like she was she's so smart, right? So she wrote this book and it's so good and it's so chock full of information that when I started I was like, I don't understand this.

[00:34:42] I read and then read it like three more times. But that is a really good book if you're looking for really intricate meanings and how everything is connected. She does a really good job of explaining everything in that book. And, but I do recommend it after, you know a little bit about Tara, if you, if that's the first book you read, you'll be [00:35:00] confused.

[00:35:00] But when you know a little bit you'll be like, aha. Yeah. She does a great job of explaining things. That's

[00:35:06] Rhonda: actually the resource book for in my classes. That is the one book that everyone needs to get. But I re I use it in Blessings to Rachel. Yes. Blessings to her. It's, I see it as a resource though, and I say that for all of the books, and I may be a heretic in the tradition, but here it is.

[00:35:25] Every, she, Rachel Pollock, Mary Kay Greer, grand Dames of the Tau. Absolutely. They set, modern Tau today, they have influenced everybody. Yes. Quite frankly, but at the same time, they are. Resources. I don't, I, this, the stress for me is a thing I want to impress on every reader.

[00:35:44] Is there something you can look to and say, huh, that's a piece of information I can bring into my tool chest? Yes. But it is not the begin all and end all because it's a living divination system and you as the reader have to [00:36:00] add your voice to it. It becomes something you can add to your tool chest, but it's not the begin all and end all.

[00:36:06] So Yeah. For Rachel's book is, it's meaty. Yeah. It was a two volume set, I think when it first was published. Now it's one, but, it's meaty. Yeah. And it takes 2, 3, 4, five times reading it to really grasp all the stuff. Yes. It's fabulous. It's

[00:36:24] Ashley: So good. Okay, so we've chatted chat, chat about that.

[00:36:28] We could go more into it, but we're just gonna leave it at that. So I'm gonna put some, yeah I'm gonna put some sources, like in the show notes, if you wanna know more about tarot and like some good websites to look at. And some of the people we're talking about Rachel Pollock and Mary Cre Greer, they're ime, their books are all good.

[00:36:45] They're like, like she said, grand Dames, like they, you wanna learn T Tarot, they're two of the best. So all right, now we're gonna go into our story time. Don't know why I sang, but this is what we're doing. So love it. I know. [00:37:00] So today's story time is like we mentioned. We're gonna talk about the Golden Dawn.

[00:37:05] Yay. Yay. Okay. So the thing about the Golden Dawn is I had heard about Golden Dawn obviously because of tarot, and I never actually understood what the hell was going on or what this group was. So I was like, all right, I guess I'm gonna do some research about this. Okay, so this is straight out from Wikipedia cuz I love a Wikipedia article.

[00:37:24] So the Herma Order of the Golden Dawn, more commonly known as a Golden Dawn, was a secret society devoted to the study of AOC cult Hermeticism and metaphysics during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, known as a magical order. The Herma Order of the Golden Dawn was active in Great Britain and focus focused its practices on gy.

[00:37:49] I will explain a lot of these terms in a minute. And spiritual development, many present day concepts of ritual and magic that are at the center of contemporary traditions such as Wicca [00:38:00] and thema were inspired by the Golden Dunn, which became one of the largest single influences on 20th century Western Occultism.

[00:38:10] Okay. Lots of terms in here that , I don't know what any of these things mean, but we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. Digging in. I love it. Exactly. So the first thing I was like, what's her? Me? So what her me is the study of an occult philosophy and magic. Her me, is the study of these books that they believe were written or inspired by the Greek God, hers.

[00:38:37] And or in some places it says, and some places it says or so, and or the Egyptian God thought. But they feel that there, there were these magical books that were written by them and they teach a lot of different things.

[00:38:51] A lot of this cis, a lot of these different initiations and rituals that end up being part of the golden dawn are in this these [00:39:00] teachings. There was first, the golden dawn came and they made like three orders of the golden dawn, and a lot of it had to do with also cabala, like Jewish mysticism.

[00:39:12] Then they talk about the el, the four classic elements, earth, water, air fire, which are all represented in tarot too. Like I said, I didn't go more into it, but in the major archana, there's four suits, cups, swords wands and Pentacles. And again, in different places it's different. Different things, but those are the basics.

[00:39:34] And those are all, they're all associated with different elements. And then also in the Golden Dawn, they teach about, this is like the basis, right? The first order is what we talk about the first order. They talk about the Kabbalah, the elements, astrology, divination and geo Nancy. And then the second order, which is like the more advanced order you start doing scr.

[00:39:56] Like people talk about like looking into crystal balls, if you don't know what [00:40:00] SCR is, that's what they call scr. Or some people use mirrors, just different stuff. They start talking about astral travel and alchemy. And then the third order was the secret chiefs, and we'll talk about the secret chiefs.

[00:40:11] So they were supposed to be these highly skilled people, and they were supposed to be in direct contact with the spirit world. So this is the levels in the golden dawn, like how serious it gets. The first thing that happened is, I think this was in late 1880s, so this was around 1887. There were these things called the cipher manuscripts.

[00:40:34] There were 60 pieces of paper and apparently on them was written all these magical RI rituals and they were all based in the four elements. So this guy, William Win Westcott, he was one of the founders of the Golden Dawn. He got his hands on these papers from this other dude who was a Freema and his name was Reverend, a f a Woodward.

[00:40:53] And he was friends with another Mason named Kenneth, r h Mackenzie. And [00:41:00] Kenneth r h Mackenzie died and then somehow Mr. Woodward got the papers and then he ended up helping William Wescott decode them. According to Westcott. Now this is all according to him. According to Westcott, after when he was decoding and reading through these 60 pages of paper, he found a address to a woman named Frow Line, Anna Springe.

[00:41:23] So Miss Anna Springe, and apparently she was a German Countess and a Rosa Crucian. So Rosa Crucian is like another magical order again with Silk, you can have a whole episode on Rose Crucian. But there was this guy named Christian Rosen Krutz, and he had this whole thing, and it was, it's a whole thing.

[00:41:38] Don't worry about it. Just know that it was there. So she was a part, she was apparently part of that group. And so he started writing to her and he's Hey, I found these papers. What's going on? And she's oh, you found the papers? That's awesome. So what you're gonna do now is you should start we have a temple basically like the Golden Dawn, but she called it a Masonic temple in Germany and you [00:42:00] can use those papers to start your own temple in England.

[00:42:02] And he was like, okay, cool. And then she's and by the way, I'm in contact with the Secret Chiefs. Those is, this is the third order, the big bo, the big dogs out here. And they said that it's solely fine. Go ahead in London and start your own group. And he's bet, let's do it. So out of all these papers, they created all these initiation levels and everything's going well.

[00:42:25] So he starts writing letters back and forth to Anna and Anna gives him the title of Adeptus Exempts. So they, again, this is like the highest title in the Golden Con, gives his title to Wescott, his friend Mathers and his other friend Woodman, cuz these are the three guys who start the Golden Dawn and the temple.

[00:42:46] It consisted of five grades outlined in the manuscript. So they had all these degrees and all these different things you could do. But Just know that now they've started the temple. So the whole thing that they did in there, [00:43:00] because you might be like, what the hell were they doing? So what they did is what some people describe as quote unquote ceremonial magic or like big magic.

[00:43:08] So what they're trying to do, their whole thing is like they're trying to communicate with gods and big time spirits or, and or meld themselves with these gods. This is their thought process and this is why they're reading all these manuscripts and doing all this work cuz they're trying to get to the level that they can do this big time stuff.

[00:43:30] And this is a time in history, Victorians we're getting to the Victorian age now. They love metaphysics. I don't know why they did. Yes, they love the medium. You think of the Fox sisters and like, All these people, they love mediums. And I think it's because, partially because they were so into like Egyptology too, right?

[00:43:52] Yeah, they were obsessed with that stuff. So they were like, cool, we're gonna try to do all this magic stuff. Okay, cool. No problem. [00:44:00] So

[00:44:00] Rhonda: is this the time when Spiritualism was coming up? That's what,

[00:44:03] Ashley: yes. Yes. And yeah. It's like when, like the whole western world was like, and this is cool, like the other parts of the world.

[00:44:08] They were already doing that, but but the West decided that it was cool at this point, so they all started doing it. Okay. In 1888, the Isis Irania Temple was founded in London it was different in Mason than Freemasons because women were allowed to participate and they were seen as equal as men and that wasn't a problem.

[00:44:26] They did rituals, they did meditations. And they did all sorts of magical practices, but some were not taught in the temple because like they could only do certain things there. It was a whole thing. It's a club. So for the first four years everything was cool. They had their own group.

[00:44:41] They had all these levels. It's not like Scientology, cause I don't even think these people were paying for it. And I think they were just doing this because they really were into it. Okay, so then they opened another temple cuz it got really popular and they called this temple the ocirus temple.

[00:44:57] And they open this in . Western Super [00:45:00] Mayor. And then they opened a ho temple in Bradford. And if you can tell, these are all based on Egyptian names and the temple in Edinburgh. So this is Scotland. And then they even founded a temple in Paris. So it's that popular that all these people were coming and wanting to learn all these different things.

[00:45:19] So now by the mid 1890s, they had different people from all over in different temples and over a hundred members of Victorian society. They even had some very some celebrities. So they had an actress named Florence Farr, an Irish revolutionary named Mod Go, an Irish poet that you may know called William Butler Yates or Wb Yates, the Welsh author, Arthur McKen.

[00:45:48] I'm the English author, is Evelyn Under Hill and Al Lester. Crowley. Okay. So then, dun in 1896 or 1897, they don't know. [00:46:00] Wescott the, one of the first guys, the guys who was writing back and forth about the papers. Okay, let's backtrack like a year or two earlier, Wescott, he says he's writing back and forth to frown line Anna.

[00:46:11] And then all of a sudden he said that Fraley Anna died. And she was like, oh do whatever you want. The secret cheese aren't not talking to you anymore. And everybody's what? Wow. Yeah. So the thing is now they think that some people think that Westcot never knew this woman, that Anna never existed.

[00:46:32] There's not actually evidence that this woman was a real person. They think he may have made her out for like clout to be like, yeah, like I found these papers and she said, everything's great. We can open this temple. So we don't know for sure, but nobody knows of this lady really living. They said there was a woman of that name, but she.

[00:46:50] Was not associated with any of this stuff. So he may have made it all up, we don't know. But what had really happened was in 1896, now we're going back to where we were, he [00:47:00] broke all ties with the Golden Dawn. What had happened was he went, he got in what they call a handsome cab. So this is like a horse drawn buggy cab before, cuz there were no cars yet.

[00:47:10] He got in a cab with all his manuscript, all these papers, and he left them in there. And I guess somebody found them and saw his name were on them and they went to oh, I forgot to tell you guys. Westcott was a coroner in London, so he had a decent job. Yeah. Especially for Victorian times, I feel like in Victorian times, nobody had a good job and everyone was miserable.

[00:47:30] Especially if you were in London, like

[00:47:32] Rhonda: Yeah. As you had it or you had nothing. Exactly.

[00:47:35] Ashley: You were either aristocrat or you were like, ache, , sweep, and those were like the only two jobs. Yes.

[00:47:40] Rhonda: It feels anyway.

[00:47:41] Ashley: Exactly. I think I'm just getting all this from Mary Poppins, but like Exactly. But so that was it.

[00:47:48] So he was a quarter, so he had a good job. Plus London was super polluted, so , a bunch of people were probably dying at the time and they had all this problems with horse manure. They never knew where to put it. It's a whole thing. So somebody got a hold of the papers and they were [00:48:00] like, Ooh, this guy's into some weird shit.

[00:48:02] So they took it over to his bosses and his bosses were like, sir, we don't know what the hell you're doing, but you need to stop because you're either gonna lose your job. Or you're gonna stop associating with all these people that you're associating with. So he left and he's I can't lose my job.

[00:48:16] It's 1897. I don't know what else I'm gonna do with my life. So he left. So after he left Mathers, the other guy, he appointed Florence Farr, one of that actress to be the Chief Adep. So she ended up being like one of the higher up people. And then Henry b Polin Brewery, another dude also became one of the higher up people, one of the chiefs or somebody who could contact the Secret Chiefs.

[00:48:42] Oh, that was the other problem. So Wescott said he contacted the spiritual realm to contact the Secret Chiefs. And then Mathers also said he did. But like Wescott, we don't even know if Wescott really did. And Mathers is oh I heard him too. We don't know if he did either.

[00:48:59] [00:49:00] And I don't know. Wescott looked at Mathers and was like, because maybe if Wescott was lying. I wonder if he looked at him like, did you really? And Mathers was like, yeah, of course I did. And they were like, yeah. We don't know who was lying. So it's, sorry. So then, okay, now we're getting towards the end of our story.

[00:49:19] So in 1899 via depths, so the top people, the ISIS and Emra Temples, they were dissatisfied with Mathers. They didn't like his stuff and they also really, everybody really hated Crowley. They thought he was a weirdo. They didn't like him. Crowley wanted to be really ahead of everybody and in charge of everything, so everyone was sick of them.

[00:49:42] They all started trying to make contact with the Secret Chiefs, but they were relying on Mathers to make this contact. And then later on Crowley decided that he thought he was better than everybody else. So he's actually, I think I could be in charge of in contact with the Secret Chiefs.

[00:49:59] [00:50:00] And I want, I don't wanna have to go through all these levels. I wanna be on the fast track. Because Mather was friends with Crowley, he let him like fast track his initiation and everybody was pissed. They were like, again, nobody liked Crowley. They thought it was weird. So they. So they did that.

[00:50:19] Then a bunch of people were like that's the last straw. We're totally sick of Mathers. We don't want him to be in charge anymore. And then he had to end up stepping down because everyone hated him. So after a while, Mathers realized he couldn't go back and he tried to make his own temple and the Isis, Uranus temple broke away from the rest of the temples and now everybody's doing whatever.

[00:50:41] And they had different splinters of the Golden Dawn out here, Crowley's doing his own thing. He's got Thema, his own like religion, and everyone's just pissed off. So everything started to fall apart. Like they started to try to open. Different. One, one of the temples in the United [00:51:00] States that didn't really work out completely, they opened one in Chicago.

[00:51:03] But then after World War I, everybody was like, we're really concerned about the World War. We really can't do this right now. Kidding. We can't be reading the clouds right now. It's too much. So we gotta focus. We have to focus on something else. So basically by the 1930s it was ridiculous. A bunch of the pen temples closed, and then the, at the end of everything, the last temple, which was actually New Zealand, closed in 1978.

[00:51:30] And that's the short and Hasin history of the Golden Dawn, but that's it guys. There's not a lot more to it. Like they tried really hard, they had a bunch of rituals. It was cool for a while and then everyone got disinterested cuz well one happened and then they ended. But some of the other really interesting members is Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

[00:51:50] So that's the guy who wrote Sherlock Holmes. He was part of the Golden Dawn too. IRISA wb, wait. And then our friends Pamela Coleman Smith and ae Wait, [00:52:00] they are all part of the Golden Dawn. So it's a really interesting, again, I put a bunch of show notes if you wanna read more about it. But it was a bunch of Victorian people trying to contact the gods and I don't know if it worked or not.

[00:52:11] Lester Crowley, again, we're probably gonna talk about him on an episode. He. I don't know what he did, but people had a lot of things to say about him and he's a really interesting character. So we'll talk about him later. But

[00:52:22] Rhonda: you did a great job given that condensed version. That was fabulous. That was fabulous.

[00:52:29] Ashley: Oh, thank you. So that brings us to the end of this show. And Rhonda, I just I always copy this other podcast I listen to Scam Goddess. It's very good. She talks about, she always says, where do you wanna be found on the internet? Or, plug yourself for a minute.

[00:52:45] Rhonda: Where do I wanna be found on the internet?

[00:52:47] So you can find me, rhondaAllen@rhondaallen.com. It's r h o n d A l i n.com. And my classes my meetup group is Northern New [00:53:00] Jersey, Touro on the meetup platform. So Northern New Jersey, Touro at Meetup. And I also teach at the Magical Path School, and it's magical with a k magical path school.com.

[00:53:14] And that's where you can find me. Yes, I have my socials. I'm on Facebook, I'm on Insta. I am not on TikTok, and it is difficult enough to keep me on Facebook and stuff. I have to admit, that's not, I'm not a fan. I just admit. I admit it. I'm just, speaking

[00:53:30] Ashley: Maru, it's very stressful. TikTok, I love TikTok, but like for other people I find it very stressful.

[00:53:37] I might be on TikTok for two seconds, who knows? I might just delete it cuz I'll get mad. But yeah, I mean

[00:53:43] Rhonda: it's easy to get down the rabbit hole. It's just, oh my god. Just more stuff to do. But it is fun. It is fun. So I get it. Yeah, it's fun. Just the time. But yeah, that's how you can find me.

[00:53:55] That's where you can find me.

[00:53:56] Ashley: Okay. Awesome. So [00:54:00] I'm so happy. Oh,

[00:54:01] Rhonda: go ahead. I was gonna say, I wanna thank you for inviting me here. This is a fabulous program. Thank you for everything with, in including the Dish. We are in Jersey. We needed to talk food, so I appreciate that. No

[00:54:16] Ashley: problem. Thank you so much for coming on here.

[00:54:19] This has been so fun. Yeah. Yes. This is one of those things that I get really tired sometimes and then I come and I'll get to talk to somebody and I'm like, I'm actually having a great time. I'm actually full of energy. You wouldn't know. I was at work for nine hours today, so it's great. Oh my gosh.

[00:54:32] Yeah. But I'm so happy. This makes me so happy. Thank you so much Devonna again and again. I'm gonna plug myself real quick and then I'm dying with a design. I'm dying with the Divine on Instagram and Dying with the Divine on Facebook and TikTok. And if you love this show, give us a five star rating wherever you listen to it.

[00:54:51] And if you wanna follow me specifically, Ashley, I am Sankofa h s, that's S A N K O F A H S, [00:55:00] and Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. And my first one, that's where I am on Instagram and I just wanted you guys, thank you so much for being here and thank you for listening and I hope you have an absolutely fabulous week.

[00:55:13] Bye.