Irish History 101 and The Badass Pirate Queen Grace O'Malley with Clare Carroll

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we're going to be exploring the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. So on today's episode, we're going to talk about the Irish diaspora and a pirate queen. I hope everyone's having a great day, and we have a fantastic guest on today.

[00:00:28] So today, we have Clara Carroll on the show. I'm so excited to talk to her. She is an Irish American who is reconnecting with her Celtic roots and advocates for European Americans to take part in ancestral healing and decolonization. Claire is known on TikTok as clearlyclose and creates videos discussing ancestral healing from an Irish American perspective, as well as what she's learned about decolonization from working within Indigenous communities.

[00:00:56] While Claire hasn't visited Ireland herself, she hopes to [00:01:00] someday go to Ireland, visit sacred sites, learn the Irish language and connect with the land of her ancestors.

[00:01:06] How are you today, Claire? I'm

[00:01:08] Clare: doing great. Yeah. I'm really excited to be here and talk more about. Irish stuff. Yeah,

[00:01:15] Ashley: yeah. Yeah. I saw you, this is a while ago now. This is a few months ago, I think on TikTok and I saw one of your videos and you were talking about how Ancestral healing and people learning more about their ancestors, especially European Americans, can actually help combat radicalization and things like that.

[00:01:37] And I was like, wow, I had never thought of it like that. I thought that was so insightful and interesting. And I'm just wondering how you, when did you... Realize that for yourself because I was like, damn, I never even thought of that. That's cool.

[00:01:51] Clare: It's definitely not my idea.

[00:01:55] Ashley: I definitely did not come up with that on my

[00:01:57] Clare: own.

[00:01:57] I honestly learned it [00:02:00] from my indigenous relatives. And when I say relatives, I in indigenous communities and I work primarily in Dakota and Lakota communities in the Midwest. But, when I say relatives, I don't necessarily mean people that I'm related to by blood, but relative terms go beyond people that you are biologically related to.

[00:02:21] And I have siblings and cousins and aunts and uncles that are my native relatives that I have learned a lot from over the years. And They're the ones that really introduced me to the concept of decolonization , I grew up in the Twin Cities in Minnesota not surrounded by Native people and not surrounded by Irish culture, really, and aside from knowing that I was Irish and, celebrating St.

[00:02:50] Patrick's Day every year, I didn't really grow up surrounded by the culture, and didn't grow up Surrounded by native people either. So it was later on, like in my childhood and. [00:03:00] teenage years that I started to meet Native people and get involved in Native communities. And that was what really introduced me to the idea of decolonization.

[00:03:11] I can't really pinpoint it back to one specific day or moment, but one that stands out in my mind is when Back in 2016 for a very brief time, I was up in North Dakota during the Standing Rock protests against the New Access Pipeline. And I, for some reason right now, the name of the lodge is escaping me, but basically that there was this lodge that was at the Oceti Shikowin camp that Indigenous leaders, conversed in, and I was invited to visit in this lodge during one of their meetings, and at one point during the meeting, and I don't even remember what was being talked about, a lot of my time at Standing Rock, although it was brief, was a blur because there was a lot that happened in a short amount of time.

[00:03:56] Oh yeah,

[00:03:56] Ashley: I'm sure.

[00:03:58] Clare: But I remember we were sitting there in the [00:04:00] meeting, and at one point, somebody, a Native person, said, can all the Indigenous people in the room please stand? And everybody around me stood, but of course I stayed seated, and then I felt this nudge, on the side like there was this native man next to me and he was elbowing me and he was like you need To stand up and I was like but I'm not indigenous and he's yes you are indigenous to somewhere and I had never really thought about it that way before and that was really like a moment that Kind of my perspective shifted and I really started to dig more into my Irish ancestry and what?

[00:04:40] decolonization could look like from a Celtic perspective

[00:04:44] Ashley: What I just got like chills when you said that I'm like, oh, that's so interesting. I love that you're looking at it from this way and that you've been inspired by the indigenous communities that [00:05:00] you work with because It's true. And you, your videos, you talking about this really got me thinking about it.

[00:05:09] And I was like, wow, I just think of a lot of the time, a lot of different places. We always talk about how actually the name of my business Sankofa is based on an Ashanti symbol called Sankofa. And it means to return and get it. That's literally what it means. But what it really means is to not.

[00:05:28] Forget what you came from and what people say, in a lot of different cultures, people say, if you don't know where you came from, you don't know where you're going. Yep. Yeah. So you think of a lot of these groups in the United States and while there's a lot of, I live here, I was born in the United States, while there's a lot of really great things about it being a melting pot.

[00:05:50] And there are a lot of good things in certain areas when. I'm so happy that I grew up in an area where there's a lot of different people because I've learned a lot of different things. So that's great, [00:06:00] but you do find that people have American pride, which is good, but then they twist it a lot of the time and it becomes this thing that's like we have to say We get, not we, I'm not going to say me because I don't really feel this way, but there, there are people who get so upset with indigenous people when they talk about their land and getting land back because they don't ever consider that they are originally from somewhere else.

[00:06:31] They get very but we're American. Yeah, it's fine that you live here. Nobody's saying you can't live here, but we are saying we have to respect the people who lived here first. We have to respect their culture, their customs, but people get so wrapped up in this idea of being an American that they can't, yeah, they can't see past it and it's.

[00:06:49] When I was thinking about that, like based on things you said, I was like, wow, if we really just had this concept where people were able to think beyond that, [00:07:00] no matter what culture they were from and embrace their culture across the ocean or cross land, wherever it is, but also be like I am a displaced person or I am a person living in another country.

[00:07:12] That's fine. It's totally fine to live somewhere else. Just don't be a dick about it.

[00:07:18] Don't be rude. But wow, that's really interesting. You said you work a lot in indigenous community for the past eight ish years. What kind of work do you do in those communities? Or is this something you've always done or wanted to do?

[00:07:33] Clare: Definitely it was not something like as a child that I never like had this dream of like, Oh, I'm going to work with Native American people.

[00:07:40] Not that I had any not that I disliked Native people or wasn't interested, but it was just never something that was a part of my life growing up. Interestingly. I became involved with Native people originally as part of a mission trip. And basically, so I'm [00:08:00] a recover, recovering Catholic.

[00:08:03] I grew up in a Catholic family. And actually, I joke about being a recovering Catholic, but my Catholic, upbringing was pretty laid back. I went to a, Catholic church in Minneapolis that was, like, very accepting of their community and people of, like, all religions I, my religious trauma is a lot less severe than a lot Anyways, when I was in high school we were going through the confirmation process of officially becoming a Catholic, and every, at the church I went to, we all had to pick a project to take part in like some sort of volunteer project.

[00:08:39] And it happened to be around that time that I had seen a TED talk in my high school I think it was my US history class about a Native American reservation called Pine Ridge. It's out in South Dakota, about two hours south of the Black Hills. And the TED talk, oh, I'm [00:09:00] going to forget the name, it was something along the lines of I think it's America's.

[00:09:05] Prisoners of war, or something like that prisoners of war in America, and it was about the history of colonization in Pine Ridge, and what it looks like today, which now that TED Talk is about 10 years old, but it still looks pretty similar. And anyways, to bring it back to the church thing I found out that my church was leading a group to go out to Pine Ridge.

[00:09:28] Not to necessarily be missionaries, that wasn't the point of the trip, but it was to go out and learn about Lakota culture to learn about the history of the reservation, and to Do basically different projects with home repair, because there's a lot of houses out there that are in really bad shape.

[00:09:46] Which Pine Ridge is I believe it still is, Oglala County is still the poorest county in the United States. It's alcoholism is a huge issue I believe it's like 90 percent of [00:10:00] the residents in Pine Ridge live below the federal poverty line so it's, and it's got a very brutal history, colonizing it.

[00:10:08] So anyways, I just randomly decided to go on this trip, and then during my time there, really became connected with some of the people there, I met my uncle Will out there, and he really taught me a lot, and I also visited the sites of Like massacres and boarding schools and learned all this history that I had, I'd never learned.

[00:10:31] And came back to Minnesota and told my family, I can't be a Catholic. After learning all that, like I have a lot. That, a lot more than I need to learn, and a lot more work that I need to do. Because I don't feel like it's right for me to be a Catholic. That's how it started. And then I started leading volunteer groups back to Pine Ridge for a few years.

[00:10:54] Then when I graduated high school, I studied Native American Studies in [00:11:00] college. And then yeah, I've just, I've worked a few different things I was the vice president of the Owachee Okotokichie, which is the powwow committee at the college that I went to. I worked with an indigenous herbalist for about two and a half years.

[00:11:18] And now I'm back in the Twin Cities and working for a it's a Native American led environmental stewardship organization in St. Paul.

[00:11:28] Ashley: Oh, that's awesome! Thank

[00:11:31] Clare: you. I know it's a long, winding story. But, yeah, it's something that kind of came up I don't believe that anything happens by accident, but kind of, came up out of the blue, but is definitely something that is very important and Prevalent in my life now.

[00:11:48] Ashley: That's so cool. And I love how like I just Speaking of tiktok before but I saw a video on tiktok the other day. It was like, you know Somebody was like what's one minor [00:12:00] thing that you did that changed the course of your life?

[00:12:04] And it's if you had never seen this ted talk you wouldn't have been like wow, this is really interesting then you had to do a project and you're like, oh and now look how like it's led you to do all these really awesome things that Where you have enriched other people too, and I bet there's a lot of people who wouldn't know a lot of information if, you're one of the people who's getting to share and put all this really awesome indigenous information outside of that community in addition to all the wonderful indigenous people who are doing it.

[00:12:34] Yeah,

[00:12:35] Clare: and that was The thing that my uncle, Will, who lives out in Pine Ridge, that was one of the things that he told me was that there are so many strong indigenous people that are trying to share this history and culture and share about, the current issues, but the issue with the rest of the world is that the rest of the world is.

[00:12:54] Often doesn't listen. And often doesn't hear what's going on because they see [00:13:00] indigenous people as being like, Oh they're separate, Oh, they're on reservation land. That's not any of our business. That's not our problem. And he really taught me the importance of advocating for indigenous people in spaces where indigenous people may not have a voice.

[00:13:15] And so that's something that's really important for me as well.

[00:13:19] Ashley: Awesome. Yay, I have to say. I have, and social media can be terrible, but I have to say, I've learned a lot from Indigenous people on social media. Oh my god, yeah. That's one, I've learned so many interesting things from all different Indigenous communities, whether they're Indigenous people from the Americas or from Canada.

[00:13:44] And I see a lot of comedy that I didn't understand, but that I learned more about it and I was like, okay, I get this like, it's like a lot of really wonderful indigenous people on social media, making really good content that is [00:14:00] fun and educational, and that is just like, so important. And I'm so glad that we have another medium.

[00:14:07] I live in New Jersey, so I don't live adjacent to a lot of indigenous people. My knowledge comes from school, which like, I have to give it to New Jersey school systems. We did get information about the indigenous people of our area, which was good. But, there's, it's a limited amount in American history that you learn once you get older.

[00:14:26] It has been really wonderful and eye opening to see all the different Indigenous TikTokers and people on Instagram and watching their videos and learning about their culture. It's been really nice. So yay for Indigenous TikTok. Yeah,

[00:14:39] Clare: absolutely. I love Indigenous TikTok. I really do. Like, oh my god, like Indigenous humor, especially in, I don't know if you're on Facebook, but Native memes on Facebook, there, there's nothing in the world that's funnier.

[00:14:51] Yes, there is. Yeah, natives have such a great sense of humor and it's really been eye opening for me. Like learning [00:15:00] about my... own culture through somebody else's is what it feels like because I have learned all the ways that Irish and Native American people are so similar. Humor is one of the things like Irish people are big on humor and like laughter really is medicine.

[00:15:18] And I think that You, if you go deep enough into your roots, wherever, if you're Asian, African, European wherever you're from, you go far back enough and you find that our cultures are really not that different. We have different names and we have different maybe different plants and there's, the geography is obviously different, but like our core values and teachings are pretty much the same across the whole world.

[00:15:45] Ashley: Yes, and I love that because we are a lot more similar than we are different. Yeah. This is wonderful. So we're going to go to our next section where we're going to [00:16:00] do our dish of the week. So Yeah, so since we're going to be talking about a lot of Irish stuff today, I was like, okay, let's talk about some Irish American dishes, because I was like, we're I want to see what the internet is saying.

[00:16:14] So you know, I got on the Google machine. And I was like, Google, tell me some information. And it did. So I got this interesting article, A lot of these things are, like, not Irish American, they're just Irish, but I don't think it matters. It's fine. There's, you'll

[00:16:27] Clare: notice on you've probably noticed on some of, the comment sections in some of my TikToks, people get really upset.

[00:16:33] And that's a lesson that I learned early on. When I started making videos and I was calling myself Irish and from Ireland, we're like you can't say that. You have to say that you're Irish American. Because there is a difference. And that was the lesson that I learned early on.

[00:16:48] And of course, obviously there's a lot of crossover, but like you'll, it's in Googling it, you'll see, there are Irish dishes and then there are Irish American dishes and there are two different

[00:16:59] Ashley: [00:17:00] things. Yes. Actually what I was doing research for this episode. I found a phrase called plastic patties, if you've heard of that.

[00:17:08] Oh yeah, I've been

[00:17:09] Clare: called that on TikTok many a time. Okay, yeah,

[00:17:13] Ashley: so this is a term for people Who are maybe part of the Irish diaspora and they talk about being Irish and people are like, oh, you're not really Irish. I have thoughts about that too. 'cause I have this same issue in my own culture, I think.

[00:17:28] On the one hand, yes, I totally understand people saying that, but I also just, I also think it's good to embrace people for who they are. At a point. It's not my fault that I live here. You know what I mean? I didn't decide these things. So I do think that while it's okay to say, okay yes, things are different when you're Irish American versus even an Irish person living in England, it's different than an Irish person living in Ireland.

[00:17:56] And I totally, yeah. And I acknowledge that. And that's totally valid. It's [00:18:00] also good that we gently. Criticize people and that we also embrace people for wanting to learn about their culture. I think that's important, especially people who are living outside their own culture. It's hard enough for us to sometimes get to experience what we want to experience and really connect.

[00:18:19] So I think it's always helpful when people embrace us. And gently correct us. It's no problem correcting people. Just do it gently.

[00:18:26] Clare: Yeah, there is of course a difference between like people that are like reconnecting and grew up in the culture, like you said. And I have made many people on TikTok angry.

[00:18:38] Especially early on, like when I first started talking about, certain topics related to Irish history and culture, a lot of people were saying you have never been to Ireland, you don't know what it's like here, it's really not your place to speak on this. And that was a very important lesson for me to learn.

[00:18:55] And at the same time, I've been a lot more careful in how I talk about [00:19:00] certain things now, and I make it very clear that I am in no way an expert on any of these topics. I'm just sharing my own personal experiences and what I've learned, but I am nowhere close to an expert on, the topic of Irish culture.

[00:19:14] Like I said, I have never even been to Ireland, and I would love to go someday but. Yeah I think that there, there is a lot of division and I've seen it in other cultures as well, like a lot of division when it comes to like, oh, who, like who almost like deserves Yes. To practice the culture or reconnect to it.

[00:19:34] Ashley: Yes, we had we had another guest on Hex Marie and she is also on TikTok and talks a lot about she talks a lot about her Pennsylvania Dutch culture and she has the same issue. A lot of Germans coming on being like, you're not really German.

[00:19:50] This and that and the third and she also Explains the differences between pennsylvania dutch culture and german culture, but there are less similarities. So yes things are [00:20:00] definitely different it's also good to see our similarities and it's also good to help people connect bridges because Irish American communities are just as valid as Irish communities.

[00:20:12] It doesn't mean since they're not in Ireland, they don't matter. No, they're just as valid and things might be different, but let's just all get along. That's

[00:20:22] Clare: what I say too. Let's just all get

[00:20:23] Ashley: along. Yeah. Let's just all get along and be cool. Okay. Not be uncool. So much easier.

[00:20:27] Literally, that's,

[00:20:31] that's it. That's it. End of the show. We don't need to talk about anything else. Bye guys, this has been Di No, just kidding. Oh, so some Irish American dishes that we found and of course, everybody loves all these things, around the St. Paddy's Day when everybody starts losing their minds about it.

[00:20:52] We got white soda bread. This is for just four ingredients that you can make with that and everything will be in the show notes if you want to make [00:21:00] these things. Soda bread is very nice. I like soda bread. We have skillet beef and black beer stew. This is a take on St. Paddy's electric skillet beef and black beer stew to celebrate St.

[00:21:14] Paddy's Day. We have corned beef Reuben sandwiches. Which they replace the No, they just add corned beef. I don't know how reuben sandwiches. I don't really eat reuben sandwiches, but if you do, you know What's replaced? I don't They have guinness beer cheese dip, which is probably really good I don't like Guinness, but it's good in food.

[00:21:36] Like, I'll eat anything that says it has Guinness in the food, because it's usually delicious, but Guinness itself is hard to digest, in my opinion. I don't drink

[00:21:46] Clare: anymore, but back when I used to drink, I used to love Guinness, but now I'm not a real Irish person because I don't drink at all.

[00:21:56] Ashley: Guinness is a very West African thing too. People in West [00:22:00] Africa love Guinness. Yes.

[00:22:01] Clare: I had a roommate who was Liberian and we used to talk about that all the time.

[00:22:06] Ashley: Yes. It's a thing. I don't know. How much they love Guinness. Yes. Yes. And like when you go over somebody's house, when they bring out Guinness, you're like, Ooh, this is a fancy person.

[00:22:19] Slow cooker Irish chili, which has smoky flavors. Tradition of traditional chi of traditional chili with dark Irish beer. Again, maybe a Guinness. Then you have Bailey's Irish cream mini cheesecakes, which I'll definitely eat again, won't drink Bailey's Irish cream 'cause I don't like coffee flavor things.

[00:22:38] And it's, I don't like milky things in my alcohol. I might eat in the food. And then slow cooker corned beef. Corned beef cabbage, what a lot of people eat on St. Paddy's Day to celebrate Irish stuff. So yes, this is our dishes of the week. And now we get to the part of the show where I plug myself quickly before we move on.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] If you like the show you can number one keep listening to it and you can number two Make sure that you're following me on whatever platform. Obviously, it's free to do that And you can come on the internets on the socials. I'm at dine with the divine on Instagram and dine with the divine on Facebook If you really like the show, you can give us a five star rating It helps more than money and you can say something nice about me on there on Apple, Spotify.

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[00:23:45] Okay. Now, we're going on to our tea time where we're gonna talk about a subject. So we're going to talk about state is like the Irish diaspora. Now, the first thing I'll say is I went to Ireland last year, which is lovely place. [00:24:00] Fantastic. Great. Love it. Love the people. There's this, we had a, I went on like a retreat and there's a night of musicians and one of the musicians, he was hilarious.

[00:24:11] And he said, Yeah, the Irish were like fungus. We are everywhere. He said it, not me. He's Irish. And I laughed hysterically because the way he said it was very funny. And the fact is there are Irish people everywhere. I live on the East coast. So I live in New Jersey. Like I said, like a million times, everyone on this podcast knows I live in New Jersey.

[00:24:33] So I live very New York adjacent. I'm not far from New York City. So there I, everybody I know is part Irish or part Italian. Everyone I know, my best friend is half Irish and half Italian. Everyone in my adjacent Areas part Irish. People say why is that? Why is everybody around here Irish?

[00:24:57] I'm gonna tell you. Let me start at the very [00:25:00] beginning, okay? Got the shit end of the stick for a long time. There's 800 years! No, oh, the other thing I want to preface is how Claire said this before. Everybody, please know that I started this podcast not because I want to be an expert on everything, because I am not.

[00:25:16] I just look stuff up, and I tell you, I'm not an expert on anything. Anything. I just like to have conversations. And that's why I like this podcast. I don't want everyone to be an expert on everything. I just want us to all learn together. That's the best part. If you are an expert on something, that's great.

[00:25:34] I'm happy for you. And if you ever want to talk to me about it, like I said, you could email me. That's no problem. But just know that I'm not an expert. I just look stuff up and then we talk about it and it's a good time. And then we all learn something together, right? Yay. Okay. We got that done. Like I said, this part, I do know for a fact, 800 years.

[00:25:53] The English were fucking with the Irish a long time. Okay, we're a long time [00:26:00] They wouldn't stop it was like they still won't they still it's still a problem and it's so funny because in Ireland like It's like what I was there if you go on any tour anything Everybody brings it up, and then they're like, Yeah, but it's fine now.

[00:26:18] But it's not, and you can tell nobody's okay. Everyone's so mad. Everyone's still mad about it. Everyone's still mad about the quote unquote troubles and everything. Everyone's still pissed. But they're like, no, but it's fine now. But then you go to a bar, and you really start talking to people, and they're like, actually...

[00:26:41] We're not okay. We're still pretty mad about how we got treated. And to be honest, I don't blame them because it just was ridiculous. So at the beginning of the whole story. So really at the beginning, it started around. 795 AD. Vikings started raiding Ireland. Now, here's the [00:27:00] thing. I'm gonna talk a little bit about Irish geography.

[00:27:03] The eastern coast of Ireland is way more accessible than the western coast. The western coast is very rocky and like And if you think like Game of Thrones and the wall, like, that's how it looks, it's hard to get there. So a lot of the invaders came in from the East, think like Dublin now. And we're talking about Ireland proper, the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland right now.

[00:27:33] So it was really hard to conquer the Western side. So even to this day, a lot of the... Like real deep culture Irish culture is still really alive in the West More than it is on the east side because the east had a lot more influence from outside So the Vikings came over because the Vikings were just fucking shit up everywhere all over the place [00:28:00] They didn't care.

[00:28:01] They have time for your bullshit So and they had been messing with the British before the British they had been messing with the British so much before that the British Already knew them They were living there. Yeah, they were well acquainted. They were getting intermarried. It, wasn't a big deal anymore.

[00:28:17] The British had just accepted their fate. They had, the British had converted a lot of them to Christianity. Like, it, it was, like, it's not fine, but, like, it was okay. So that started happening. Then the Normans... who were like another kind of Norse y group. We're just going to refer to them as a Norse y group.

[00:28:36] They landed in around 1167. And then who followed them? The Welsh and the Flemings. Don't ask me about the Flemings, but you know the Welsh are. They were from Wales. So now there were some problems. There was a lot of issues going on in Ireland. Don't ask me about the clan system. I cannot explain it.

[00:28:56] It's very complicated. Look it up for yourself, I apologize. [00:29:00] But there's a lot of clans, and there's a lot going on, and there's a lot of chieftains, and a lot of people who want to be in charge. So there ended up being this drama, where there was this one king, and he was like, I want to be in charge, and then he did a coup, and took over the other king, and the other king was like, damn, that's crazy.

[00:29:18] So he was upset. So he literally, he called up King Henry of England, I think it was King Henry II, we haven't gotten to King Henry VIII with all the wives yet. This is like early King Henry's. And King Henry is like, no problem, I support you, but... I'm not gonna give you my army, but like, okay, if you wanna be king again, that's fine, but like, do what you do.

[00:29:41] So he ended up going on like, a little tour, and he ended up going to Wales, and he met this guy named Richard de Clare, in Wales. And Richard de Clare had some people, and some men, so he's like, Richard, Man, can we, like, can you help me take over my part of Ireland again? And Richard's like, what's in it [00:30:00] for me?

[00:30:00] And he's like, I got this daughter, you can marry her. And Richard's like, ugh, whatever. Richard already had two or three kids and he had, I think he was a widower. But, he was like, the king was like, but here's the thing, if you marry my daughter, You end up being the king after I'm dead and Richard's like, actually that's cool And I'm not gonna be king over here.

[00:30:22] So I'm a Norman and this might be cool So he went home the king of Ireland you went home and you told his daughter Her name was Aoife and he was like Aoife you gotta marry this dude And Aoife was like absolutely not I'm not marrying this dude And he's she's like you gotta do it for the good of the country and Aoife was like actually I love my country I'm gonna do it.

[00:30:38] So she did she married this dude and it was fine And the guy is actually, Richard de Cleyre is also known as Strongbow. So he went to Ireland, he used his army to conquer the other kings. He ended up marrying Aoife, they had a couple kids, and then her kid, one of her kids ended up marrying someone else.

[00:30:58] Anyway, they ended up [00:31:00] being controlled again now by the Normans. So now the Normans have majority control of Ireland. Everything is okay. Until around 1541, when the Irish Parliament, for I don't know what reason, they went and they bestowed the title of the King of Ireland on King Henry VIII after the uprising of Kildare threatened regional homogeny.

[00:31:24] So there was some drama with the royals. So they were like, King Henry VIII, just handle this for us. And they were like, okay. Now this is where she starts to get really bad. Because remember, okay, again, we're going again to history. Everybody, I think we talked about this before, remember King Henry the 8th, right?

[00:31:42] He's had six wives. Remember how his first wife, her name was Catherine of Aragon. She was a Spanish hottie. She had married... His brother, but then his brother died. So then King Henry the eighth and married her But then she couldn't have a son and you know back then [00:32:00] everybody had to be a boy, whatever.

[00:32:01] It's stupid. So everyone had to be a boy and She could only she only had the one daughter Mary you remember Mary she was a little wild So He got mad, and he was like, I need a divorce, and the Catholic Church, which everybody in England was Catholic at the time, was like, you can't get a divorce, and he's like, no, I actually do Catherine is the worst, she's not having sons, because she can control that.

[00:32:28] But she can't, so he's like, I need a divorce. And they were like, we can't give you a divorce. And he was like, okay, screw it. I'm just going to make my own church. And this is also around the time that Martin Luther was getting pissed off about everything. Not Martin Luther King, Martin Luther, the German one.

[00:32:42] Remember? Yeah. So everybody was like, we don't like the Catholic church anymore right now. We're going to make our own. So that's where Anglicans came from. He was like, I'm gonna make the Anglican church. Now, everybody's Protestant now, because everyone's mad. No problem. But this was a problem for the Irish, because the Irish were very Catholic.

[00:32:58] And King [00:33:00] Henry VIII is taking over, right? So he starts to move his people in. What do all these conquerors do? They try to move their people in. So all of these Protestant settlers start coming from England and going to Ireland. And Scotland by the way is having similar issues right now and now they're taking land from the Catholic landowners and Giving it to Protestant settlers.

[00:33:22] So now everyone's getting upset. This is getting well now from now The British government is carrying out this constant land confiscation, taking everybody's shit. These are, not even, not everybody even has to be the wealthy Irish people. It could be like middle class Irish people.

[00:33:40] They're just taking their land. And it's getting really difficult for the Irish to just be there and chill, right? They started to put in all these laws about how people shouldn't be Catholic anymore, they gotta be Anglican, and it was just starting trouble. So now, here comes the 17th century, and [00:34:00] now it's real bad.

[00:34:01] Every there's tons of wars. The Irish were fighting. Remember? Again, I know everyone's sick of me referencing Outlander on this, but I'm going to keep referencing Outlander until we're dead. Sorry. Remember when Jaime was fighting in the Battle of Culloden? Yes, I know this is Scotland, not Ireland.

[00:34:17] But they were having those kinds of problems. Like, there was fighting everywhere. And The British had like a very big established army. And before this, like I said, there was a clan system, The other problem Sorry, I have to go back. Was the Irish people, with their clan systems and having some issues between them, It was like the perfect time for the British to slide in and cause trouble.

[00:34:41] Because they weren't as united as they could have been. Because they were having issues between themselves. That's not their fault. That was just what was happening, right? So now the 17th century comes now. There's 11 years of war hair and there's a Rebellion of 1641, where a lot of the Irish Catholics [00:35:00] rebelled against the English and Protestant settlers.

[00:35:03] Now they started killing each other. This sucks. There was a battle of the three kingdoms, and then this dick, this guy named Oliver Cromwell came up. Oliver Cromwell sucks. Think Andrew Jackson, except he was British.

[00:35:18] That's Oliver Cromwell. He was a dick. He was a bad dude. He didn't care. He was killing Irish people for no reason. And what he really started to do was, he's like, you know what? I'm getting tired of killing all these Irish people. I'm just gonna move them. That's literally what he did. He was like, I'm just gonna move them.

[00:35:36] So what did he do? He took them to different places big places. He took them where the Caribbean Jamaica Barbados I think is the biggest one was Barbados. Jamaica is a really big one and He also moved them to penal colonies like Australia and New Zealand He was just moving people getting them out because and a lot of them were also landowners So he was moving [00:36:00] them farmers, whatever get rid of them During this time, there were people who were still there, and they were still fighting.

[00:36:08] There was this guy named James II, they tried to put him in power, he was a Catholic king. They wanted him to be in power because they knew he would be like more chill. So a lot of the Irish Catholics tried to fight for that between, in like the 1680s, but it didn't work. And the Scottish, again, Battle of Culloden, you guys remember?

[00:36:26] Outlander, very educational. That's, remember the king? In Outlander. That's who I'm talking about. Okay, you guys know what I'm talking about. I'm glad. Now, Oh, so there was a lot of drama. They sent them all over the world and then there was some more drama. Just know that a lot of drama was happening.

[00:36:46] Now, we're gonna jump back to Ireland later, but now we have to go across the sea. So we're 15th

[00:36:57] and 18th century Irish. [00:37:00] and Welsh prisoners were transported for forced labour in the Caribbean to work off their term of punishment. Two different things going on here now. We can call all of this indentured servitude, but there's two different situations Some people when it comes to indentured servants were forced to do this.

[00:37:21] They didn't have a choice. They were Prisoners they had done something that the government deemed wrong now when we say prisoners in these days I'm saying that these people may have been prisoners the same way that our friend, What's our friend's name in Les Miserables? You know who I'm talking about, Hugh Jackman.

[00:37:43] I only

[00:37:43] Clare: remember him as Hugh

[00:37:44] Ashley: Jackman, I can't remember. Yeah, exactly. Okay, Hugh Jackman and Les Miserables. Remember how in Les Miserables, Hugh Jackman only went to jail because he had stolen some bread because his sister was sick? That's the kind of prisoners we're talking about. We're not talking about full out, like, I mean, yeah, some of them were [00:38:00] probably bad people, but we're also talking about they were just rounding people up.

[00:38:03] Also, just so you know, I learned this, and I'm gonna try to find this somewhere. A lot of the prisoners are, okay, so this is a side story, we'll have to talk about this another time, quickly. In Australia especially, they were first taking dudes from these places, Ireland, even England, prisons, Welsh prisons, they were just taking men.

[00:38:26] They took all these dudes over there and now the British officers who are over there were like, wow, these dudes are out of control. They were sexually assaulting the Aboriginal women. To the point, first of all, the British, they didn't care about that kind of thing, but it got so bad that they cared.

[00:38:42] That's how you know it was bad, right? They didn't care about aboriginal people. We're like, damn, actually, this is getting really crazy. They called up England and were like, you're gonna have to send us some women. So the English were, this is not funny at all, this is [00:39:00] absolutely horrible, but the English women and these other women in the England, Scotland, they were so opposed to going to Australia, they just starved themselves.

[00:39:11] They were like, we're not going. They had to give them, they were force feeding these women. They were telling them, listen, if you go there, you don't have to be a prisoner anymore. Just go there because we need to get these men under control.

[00:39:23] You need to go there and just sleep with these dudes. Basically, that's what they were trying to get them to do. A lot of the women didn't wanna do that. They were force fed. They were. All sorts of issues, but then some of them ended up going, right? So what they did because these women were smart as hell they got on the boats, right?

[00:39:41] And obviously the trip from england to Australia is really long. So every time they had to stop at a port, these women would prostitute themselves to make money. Cause they said, we're not going there without any change. I said, these women are the smartest people ever. They were like, we have to [00:40:00] do something.

[00:40:02] Can't just show up in this place with all these rabid men, not have anything. So a lot of them ended up going there and ended up being the wealthiest people there. Wow. It's crazy. It is. Oh my God, I thought it was so smart. So there's that. So it obviously was probably really rough, but like that part of it was interesting.

[00:40:29] I read something about that was so cool. I think I listened to a podcast. I have to find it. Anyway, let's go back to the original story. I'm sorry. I went so off topic. Okay. Oh, Endangered Servitude. Another really good, I'm referencing a lot of movies today, everybody. Sorry. A really good movie if you want to watch.

[00:40:45] It's really brutal and it's really hard to watch. I'm not gonna lie. But it's a really good movie. Nightingale. It's... Yeah, it's so good. And the thing about it is Outlander. It's very brutal and [00:41:00] people be like, oh god, this is a lot But the thing is it was the reality of the time was this bad this is what it was like for people who were indentured servants at this time.

[00:41:10] It was really bad. So anyway, so these Irish people, Scottish people, Welsh people, they were sent over, we're talking about the Irish right now, so we'll concentrate on them, so they were sent over to the Caribbean especially to live and be indentured servants. Now, like I said, some were forced, but on the other hand, some people left because they just had nothing in Ireland anymore, the brutality was too much around them, their families, their lands had been taken, they didn't have anything.

[00:41:41] There were some people who did have some money and left because they thought maybe my life will be just easier there. Because I do have a little money, maybe I can create a plantation and do work. So it didn't, it wasn't always bad, but a lot of times it was. So anyway, the Irish, especially in Jamaica, now, hey, I get to talk [00:42:00] about my family.

[00:42:00] So my maiden name is Bailey, my mother's maiden name. And in, in Jamaica, there's a lot of towns, especially in the country, That have Irish names and you'll find there's a lot of people with Irish last names. There's a lot of mix There's a lot of fits There's a lot going on there because a lot of the people there ended up Intermarrying with the Irish and if you listen to somebody Especially from Cork, Ireland, and I encourage you to do this on YouTube, listen to somebody from Cork, Ireland talk.

[00:42:35] They have thick accents to the point where it's actually hard to understand them. Sometimes they're speaking English, and you listen to somebody from a place like cockpit country, which is a very specific area in Jamaica, you'll hear the similarities in their accents. They have this very guttural, deep, like they're talking from their, like literally from their gut accent.

[00:42:58] And a lot of it is because of the [00:43:00] intermingling and the intermarriages. And another group I love to talk about, Jamaicans. The Maroons who were living up in the mountains, they lived with the Irish too because the Irish sometimes decided to run away because they were like, this sucks.

[00:43:12] And they ran into the mountains and they found the Maroons. The Maroons were like, okay, come chill with us. You guys are going to be cool. They're like, yeah. They're like, all right, cool. So they ended up intermarrying and it's very nice. It's a very cute story. Okay. So I also brought all of this up because every single time.

[00:43:32] We have St. Patrick's Day. We start to bring up this argument about slavery versus indentured servitude. And I think we need to stop talking about that now, because it's a null argument. They were both bad. Slaves couldn't leave. Indentured servants couldn't really leave either until their indentured servitude was over.

[00:43:53] And sometimes the people who were keeping them were, would just keep extending it and they [00:44:00] also treated them like garbage. But it was two different situations. I'm not saying one was worse or one was better, but let's just call it what it was. Now. Let's stop. Yeah, this is yeah I'm so

[00:44:13] Clare: sick. I'm so sick of yeah hearing people can compare the two because they are such different situations.

[00:44:20] And I could not agree with you more. Like, arguing over who had it worse is just like, that's an argument that will never be resolved. And it's just pointless. And we don't need to compare human suffering in that way.

[00:44:34] Ashley: Exactly. Everybody was unhappy. That's all you need to know. No one was happy.

[00:44:41] No. It was all bad. And thank God that's not the situation. too many places anymore. That's what we're happy about. So me and Claire have declared it over. We're never talking about that ever again. I don't want to see one stupid article about it ever again in [00:45:00] the month of March. I swear to God, I'm gonna lose my shit if I see an argument like that again.

[00:45:06] Oh my God. So annoying. Though we have decided it's over. Okay, so now the other bit, now again more bigger problems for the Irish people and again, this is the English is doing. So now, we have You're surprised.

[00:45:29] You're surprised because you shouldn't be. Everybody, I hope you're not at home saying what? The English did it again? They sure did. Now, so now you remember that time that there was a potato famine and everyone talked about the potato famine and how shitty it was? It was. Now, there's a couple things that happened.

[00:45:50] Was there like a little, there's some fungus or something growing on the potatoes? Yeah, there was a problem. But the real actual problem was that the [00:46:00] Irish were farming. Okay, let's try the beginning. Now, this actually happened in the Americas, too. I know this happened in Virginia. And I don't know dates and I don't know exactly the wording.

[00:46:11] I'm not used, I'm not an agricultural major. So just stay with me. In Virginia, I think it was the Powhatan people. This is a Pocahontas, her people, they had a method of farming the land and most places around the world understand this method Where you don't farm the same exact thing every time Okay So they had a method of farming where they didn't farm everything the same time because that's the smart way of doing it also tobacco When you grow tobacco in certain places, it messes up the soil, so you can't grow too much of it, and there's a certain way you have to grow it.

[00:46:51] Again, they've been doing this for thousands of years, and they understood that. When the cell when the English settlers, the Pilgrims came, they were idiots, [00:47:00] and they didn't know how to do this. They were like, oh, tobacco makes money, so let's just keep making it tobacco, which ruined the land, and then they couldn't farm anything on that land for tons and tons of years until the land healed.

[00:47:15] Now they did the same thing in Ireland. They basically overused these lands to, especially like potatoes and other vegetables, to keep growing. Remember, Ireland is called the Emerald Isle, it's a lot of beautiful greenery and it's really nice, but you also just can't continuously farm.

[00:47:37] So because of this now, the crops were not as good, and the British were exporting so many of the crops that they could take, that the Irish people didn't have any food to eat. So this caused another problem, and this is a big, this is another time where you see a lot of Irish people leaving Ireland, because they were literally starving them.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] People were dying because they couldn't eat. They had no food for their own families. And they were making food. They were farming. But they owed so much food to the crown that they couldn't feed their own family.

[00:48:13] Clare: And I don't have a, I don't have a source for this off the top of my head, but when I bring up the potato famine, or in Irish it's called angor tamor, or the great hunger.

[00:48:23] Because they, in Ireland it's not referred to as a famine. It was, it's referred to as an act of genocide. But one of the things that allegedly happened during that time as well is that a lot of the fishing boats were burned by British people because that's like a argument that people will make with me.

[00:48:41] It's like, oh if Irish people were so smart or, whatever, like, if it was really Like not their fault that they starved. Why didn't they go into the ocean and fish? And it's because the boats were burned. And like I said, I don't have a source for that, like off the top of my head, but that is something that I have heard as well.

[00:48:57] Ashley: Also, that's the dumbest dumbest question anyone [00:49:00] could ask you or if they were so smart. What the hell are you stupid ass question. It's that people don't choose to starve like nobody's choosing. Dumbass idiots. She's so mad. How dare you ask such a dumb question?

[00:49:15] Clare: People, especially on TikTok people will ask it.

[00:49:17] People will really say anything they want in the comments. Also,

[00:49:22] Ashley: people are really crazy. Also, this is totally random. If anybody watches alone. I've, oh, I've really been referencing TV today. If anybody watches Alone, it's a very good show. It can be a little slow, so some people are like, Oh, it's boring.

[00:49:35] I don't think it's boring. It's about, like, I think they pick 12 people, and they put them out in the wilderness, and they have to, survive as long as they can, and whoever survives the longest. So there was this one guy, to want to talk about fish. There was this one guy who got, fish, and he was eating fish, but you cannot live off of fish alone.

[00:49:53] No. Like, yeah, he got, protein sickness, , he got, sick, and they had to take him out, cause he, [00:50:00] and psychologically, he started, hoarding fish, and then not eating it, because he's always thinking he didn't have enough fish, so it was messing with his mind, it was a whole thing. Number one, you can't eat fish alone, whoever's dumb and asked that question.

[00:50:12] Number two. This same thing happened during, this same thing happened about a hundred years later in China. During the Cultural Revolution, Mao, that asshole, he was like, Everyone needs to be a farmer! And all these people were like, we don't know how to farm. I'm a professor. I am a lawyer.

[00:50:30] I'm a garbage man. I don't know how to farm. He's like I don't care! It's like, I am a secretary and my wife's a hairdresser. He's like, I don't care. You need to be a farmer now. So he tried that, and guess what? So many people starved to death because... of Mao trying to say everyone should be a farmer when people who weren't professional farmers couldn't do it.

[00:50:55] Like, so why, like, you can't just tell people to [00:51:00] farm. That's not how any society works. If you look at any society, Everybody had a job, right? Even when you go back a thousand years to the to a small Okay, let's pick a random country. Go a thousand years back to a small village in Kazakhstan. You're gonna find that there was a couple families who did the farming.

[00:51:19] This person was like a blacksmith. That lady over there probably did like Herbalism and hair and help the women. Oh, that lady was a midwife. Everyone can't just do one thing because that's not how societies work. Yeah. Okay. That's just me and Claire are here to tell you. If you didn't know. This is how a society does not work.

[00:51:39] Exactly. Everyone farms. Nothing else will get done.

[00:51:44] Clare: Yeah, this is not Animal Crossing now. Come on.

[00:51:49] Ashley: Easy like that. You know how, in those farming games where you just, touch a button and the egg comes? That's not how real farming works. It's really hard, actually. Yeah, and [00:52:00] that's

[00:52:00] Clare: so true because I don't know if you've seen recently because you said that you've spent time in Ireland and recently there's an article that many people have sent me that there's a program in Ireland right now that will, regardless of if you have Irish ancestry or not, if you move out to some of the more remote, Areas in Ireland, I believe it's like some of the Aran Islands, like out in Ireland.

[00:52:25] You will get paid to move, like 90, 000 to move out there. And I believe it's an agricultural program. They're trying to get more people into farming because the Irish population and the Irish landscape, like the literal land itself, has still not recovered from famine. And I don't think that people, realize How big of an impact that Angortzomor had on Irish people, and not only the Irish psyche, but the land itself.

[00:52:55] You can, I from what I've heard, and maybe you've witnessed this, you can still [00:53:00] see the scars, in the land.

[00:53:03] Ashley: Yeah, it's I have to say Ireland is like one of those places that there's certain places and there's places from my own culture from my where I go and I'm like yes, I feel it.

[00:53:15] Irish is Ireland is one of those places. First of all, it's like a giant portal or something to like, I don't know another universe. You feel weird. They're like, this is amazing. But also, You do feel that like pain even when you talk to people like yeah, it's like a hundred Or 50 years later, but like you still feel it and people still have stories of their great so and so telling the story of when this shit happened and when this happened, so it's not, history isn't always as far back as everyone's like, it's not happening now, but it doesn't matter.

[00:53:50] Also, land physically, and again I'm a, I'm an amateur gardener. I have a couple okra plants in my backyard and some tomatoes. [00:54:00] Okay and I buy my soil from the nursery. I'm not out there with a hoe. But the land really does need to heal, and the land remembers all that stuff, whether you're spiritual or not.

[00:54:11] I mean, you listen to this podcast, you probably believe in this stuff, but like, the land does remember, and I do feel that. When I've been there, I do feel like... This land knows. That it's been wronged and it's been it's had problems. So yes, and I have seen those articles where they're paying people to move to these places and I'm like, that's so cool.

[00:54:31] If I had the guts, I would do it. I don't. So the other thing that's really nice about Ireland is there's cows everywhere. Yeah. Every, yeah. Oh my God. They're so cute. There's cows everywhere in Ireland. Also if you want to get on TikTok, go on Hooftalk. If you're into seeing stuff, people shave. Down the holes of cows.

[00:54:51] Oh yes, I've seen that. I love, it's, for some reason I find it therapeutic. To watch Hoof talk. I love it. I feel like I'm getting a [00:55:00] manicure just by watching.

[00:55:04] There's two people I love. One guy, I think he is Irish. I think it's TheHoofGP. And then there's NateTheHoofGuy. I love them both. I know everything about a white line lesion. I'll be looking and they'll be like, can you tell what's wrong with his hoof? And now I can. I'm like, there's an abscess under that hoof.

[00:55:21] We'll find it. Nate will always find it. And he always heals the cow and the cows are so much. I love when he goes back three months later, he's like, look at the cow walk. And I'm like, Oh my God, She's so happy. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So anyway, so there was the great hunger. That's what I will be referring to it in the proper way from now on.

[00:55:45] And it was also like an issue of single crop dependency. The British were like, just grow potatoes. And they were like, we have to grow other things. They're like no. Just potatoes. They were like, that's not gonna work. Idiots. . So that caused a problem, and that caused even more, [00:56:00] this went on for a while, and it rippled, had ripple effects, to the late 1800s, into the early 1900s.

[00:56:07] Then you get Ellis Island open, the first person who ever went through Ellis Island was a little Irish girl, she sounds very cute, her name was Annie. And a lot of people came through there, in cities, in cities like Boston, New York, a lot of people went through there. And all over the world, you'll find places, even a, there's a lot of places also in South America where there's pockets of Irish people.

[00:56:29] Different places in Europe, Australia, New Zealand. Irish people, not in my words, of the words of a musician named Fergus. Irish people are like a fungus, we are everywhere. That is also why Ireland depends heavily on tourism, because there are so many Irish people all over the world, or people of Irish roots, who come back to visit it.

[00:56:55] So they, It was really rough for them during COVID because that's their biggest [00:57:00] industry, is actually tourism. I think second is dairy because of all the cows. But everybody, honestly, you should go to Ireland because it's chill. I'm telling you, the people there are cool, man.

[00:57:10] Like, they're so nice. Irish music is cool. It's fun. It's a good time. So that's a little bit about the Irish diaspora. And, yeah, if you're Irish, learn about your roots. If you're not Irish, learn about Ireland. It's a cool place. Now we're gonna do our story time. So our story time is a cute little story about a woman who took no shit.

[00:57:32] I love... On this podcast a woman who takes no shit. Everyone should know that by now. So We're gonna talk about a woman named Grace O'Malley. Grace. Grace is the ultimate I don't have a care in the world. I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want. Oh, yeah. She's like, don't tell me what to do. What? She

[00:57:54] Clare: doesn't give a shit.

[00:57:55] Whenever I think I can't do something, I think of Grace O'Malley. And I think even [00:58:00] if she is not my blood ancestor, she is my spiritual ancestor. And I have to embody her and I can get

[00:58:06] Ashley: things done. At all times. This is why I picture it because you do a lot of work with ancestors. And we have talked about it before on this podcast that ancestors.

[00:58:15] Do not only have to be of blood, they can be a place. They can be, you have indigenous ancestors now because you work with indigenous communities. So you have people who are on your team up there who are like, yeah rah, she's cool. Like, so you have indigenous ancestors of place, of vocation, of time of just relation.

[00:58:36] You're, if you have. Close friends or people, we've talked about this too, like I was talking about queer ancestors. Queer ancestors could be Marsha P. Johnson. She doesn't have to be your real ancestor, but she's a queer ancestor. So you can have ancestors from different groups. So Grace O'Malley is, she's my ancestor too of badass women because she's just cool.

[00:58:58] So [00:59:00] she was born in 1530 to a seafaring O'Malley clan. That was her clan. She decided to join them at sea even though her father was like, Grace, you're actually not set out for this. So apparently what had happened was she was like, I want to go to sea with you guys. And her dad was like, absolutely not.

[00:59:17] You have to like, probably like, you have to be a girl. Girl's can't do it. Whatever. And he also said your hair is too long. She did. She showed up the next day and shaved her head. She's like, now whose hair is too long?

[00:59:35] She looked at her dad and said, try me. Try me. Oh, I love him

[00:59:39] Clare: so much. We haven't even gotten into like the amazing things she's done yet, but like, oh my god. Everything about her, I just love her.

[00:59:48] Ashley: She's so funny.

[00:59:52] So then she nicknamed Granny, Grace the Bald Granny Mahal. We'll [01:00:00] just say that for now because, we've talked about this maybe how the English lettering and English language doesn't go with other language sometimes. Forgive me for my mispronunciation. So we're not going to do too much Gaelic because that's a hard one.

[01:00:12] So her primary job, I don't know why I wrote this in my notes, her primary job was to harass and piss off the British. And

[01:00:20] Clare: then I know the Irish love her so much.

[01:00:23] Ashley: She spent her life being like, this is gonna be my profession. It's just to make British people angry. So here's some of the wild shit she decided to do in her life.

[01:00:34] Her first husband was killed So what she did was she stayed in the castle and they were like, Grace, you got to get out. Your husband's been murdered They're coming for you next.

[01:00:42] She's like Hold my beer. She stayed in the castle and then she melted a bunch of lead on and put it on the roof and poured it on the soldiers when they came in. She didn't care. One time, a nearby clan killed her friend. They think it maybe [01:01:00] had was also maybe her lover. So she waited till they all went to bed.

[01:01:05] And she went to the village and she killed everybody who was there. And they took all the land because they killed her friend. She was pissed off about that. Fair, I think, I think so, too. Yeah, like, don't kill my friends. I love them. Then we have this guy who is this guy who is named Earl of Howth.

[01:01:24] He was a fellow clan leader, and I think there was like a neighboring clan, so he wasn't too far from her. He refused her lodging. You know what, Grace was like, Oh, okay, you don't want me to stay with you, that's fine. I'm gonna kidnap your grandson. So she did. She kidnapped his grandson. I refused to give it back until he put some respect on her name.

[01:01:45] She said, do you know who I am? You really think this is a good idea? And eventually he realized it wasn't. And he gave her a lot of change. He's like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My bad. My bad. I [01:02:00] got a little crazy. I apologize. I forgot who you are. She remarried after her husband had died.

[01:02:07] And she, the first year of her trial marriage, she decided she didn't like the dude. So she locked him out of his own castle and then was like, this is my castle now. And he was like, I guess it is because I'm also not gonna fight you. So actually, I was reading about this, which is interesting.

[01:02:22] Apparently at this time in Ireland, it was actually common to have these, like, one year trial marriages. So they were literally doing, like, just a situation where they would get married, but after the first year, if you didn't really like the person, it was totally cool to, divorce them.

[01:02:38] It was fine. Yeah, it was like, oh, we're not getting along. They'd be like, okay, cool. Apparently it was really normal. So I was like, that's actually a really good idea. Bring that back. Absolutely. I think that's It would help a lot of people. Dating,

[01:02:51] Clare: And just immediately get married, but it's just trial year.

[01:02:54] And then if it doesn't work, just, alright,

[01:02:55] Ashley: see you later, good luck. Exactly. It's what's that show? Married at First Sight? They [01:03:00] do that. Yeah. They see each other for the first time, yeah. And then eight weeks later they decide if they still like each other, eh. Probably something like that.

[01:03:06] Yeah, we'll do it. We're bringing me and Clara bringing it back. So another time she apparently which I don't know how close okay I don't know how close her house was to the coast. I don't know. It must have been close. She apparently Tied a rope from the mast of her boat to her bedpost so she could make sure nobody took her boat.

[01:03:30] Clare: And that may be the most Irish thing she ever did. I

[01:03:36] Ashley: swear to god, I don't know how long this is gonna take me and how much effort I have to put into doing this. No one's taking my shit. Yeah, that is like,

[01:03:44] Clare: the most like, that is like the epitome of like, Irish women stubbornness. Like, you are not taking my fucking boat.

[01:03:52] Ashley: Don't touch my boat! I'm a seafaring woman!

[01:03:59] Oh, [01:04:00] please. Next she... She gave birth to a son and his name was Toby and She gave birth on one of her ships actually while they were riding around and their ship was attacked by a group of Algerian Sailors, and so what she did was she heard the fighting. This is how I imagine it. Grace is downstairs She just had a baby yesterday.

[01:04:22] So she's probably chilling, nursing her baby She's like, ooh, I had a whole baby yesterday. My vagina hurts So she was like laying in bed and stuff and then she hears a ruckus and she's like what's that? And then she looks and she sees fighting. She sees bloods coming down the stairs She literally put her baby, one day, one day old baby, she put the baby down on the bed and she got her sword, she was, she said I'll be right back, I'm sorry, she kissed the baby gently on the head with I love you, and started killing bitches, look, right now, oh god, [01:05:00] I'm gonna tie this bow to my mast in my bed, you think I'm gonna give it up now, just cause I have a baby, get out of here, She is so funny.

[01:05:11] Oh god.

[01:05:15] Clare: I have a question. Do you know, like, has anybody ever made like a movie or a show about her? Because I have yet to see one.

[01:05:24] Ashley: No, and I'm confused as to why they haven't. Yeah, like,

[01:05:27] Clare: this would be like the most amazing TV show of all time. And it could all be historically accurate and it would be like the most entertaining show on earth.

[01:05:37] Like the fact that there is not one, like, the fact that more people don't know about Grace O'Malley is honestly, shocks me.

[01:05:46] Ashley: It's so awesome. Like, okay, I feel this way about, like, okay, Cleopatra, she was cool. But like, how many movies are we gonna make about Cleopatra?

[01:05:55] Exactly. Like, she did yeah, she was like, cool, cause she was just like, kinda banging Julius [01:06:00] Caesar, but then kinda banging his friend. Like, okay, so what? I don't care anymore. I wanna see a woman who's one day postpartum fight a bunch of soldiers! Yeah, I

[01:06:11] Clare: want to see a pirate lady fuck shit

[01:06:13] Ashley: up.

[01:06:14] Like, while her baby's just like, calmly sleeping in the bed. This is my other vision, so she gets okay, so she kissed a baby on the head, she puts it down. She goes up the stairs, I'm choreographing the movie, so she goes up the stairs, and she's fighting fighting, right?

[01:06:30] Until the last dude, she knifes him, sorry, I know it's a little violent, but this is Grace, she doesn't care. She knifes him, right? And then all of a sudden she hears like, she's like, I'm coming! I'll be right there! So she goes back and she starts rocking her baby. End scene.

[01:06:52] The baby didn't even know she left. The baby fell asleep. And she's just like, I want to watch this

[01:06:58] Clare: and think oh my gosh, the writers are [01:07:00] genius, like, for coming up with this. Not realizing that this is actual history.

[01:07:04] Ashley: It really happened. And honestly, yeah, it seems like a long time ago, but it wasn't.

[01:07:10] It was 500 years ago. It wasn't that long ago that she was doing this. And she was, and people like, I haven't had a baby, but I have friends who have had, and it's a lot. Like the first day, most of them don't get up. This lady had to go kill people with it. And those swords were heavy.

[01:07:30] It's not like these small little. little knife she had. She was out there really fighting. We love Grace. So then the other thing was she went to British jail for a little while. So she was in jail for she was in jail I think a few times. I don't think she was only in jail one time.

[01:07:45] She went to British jail for a while. And when she, oh god. When she got out, apparently at the doors, a group of British soldiers tried to mess with her. So she beat them all up. And then she got in her boat and was like, bye bye [01:08:00] and she left. I'm out bitches

[01:08:08] She literally got out of prison after two years and this group of like thugs come up to her they're like We're gonna meet you up. And she's like, who me? Have you heard of me ? I was like, ah. They didn't know. And they all were left like, in the cartoons with like the little spinning birdies around their head.

[01:08:26] Yep. She walks onto her boat, she's like, bye, see you later. So now the biggest thing that happened in her career. Was, okay, there was this time that Ireland was now divided between sixty different clans. And this is one of those times when the British were like, great, everybody's fighting, let's move in real quick.

[01:08:45] So Grace realized this was Grace wasn't only strong, she was smart. She was like, oh no! She's like, you guys, we can fight amongst each other! But we can't, it's like when you are hanging out with your family and maybe you guys have like a [01:09:00] little infighting in the family, but then you know that you're all going to a, like a party where you all dislike this other family.

[01:09:06] So you're like, we have to act like we're perfect so that the other family doesn't know. , that's what she basically told everybody in Ireland. It's just, it's like you guys need to get it together for this party. Yeah, she's like, I know we're all mad at each other, but we all hate the British. So we all have to get along.

[01:09:23] So she got people together, her and her husband did. And they went and they fought against the British. And this governor's name was Richard Bingham. was Grace's biggest hater. He couldn't stand her. He couldn't stand her, and she couldn't stand him. They went at each other. First, Richard had her husband killed.

[01:09:46] Terrible, then she was like, oh, you're gonna kill my husband. Let me one up you She killed dozens of his soldiers and burned down a bunch of his castles and a bunch of castles that were abandoned By Irish Catholics so that just so the [01:10:00] British couldn't have them So she burned them down Then he went and burned all her lands killed a bunch of her cattle and made one of her sons turn on her so then She decided to start living on a boat, because she was like, I don't have time for this guy's crazy.

[01:10:16] And he found a bunch of secret ports that she used to dock the boat on, and he burned them to the ground. So then she just started to get tired of it, and she said, You know what? I'm calling a little lady named Queen Elizabeth. You remember Henry VIII? Yeah, his daughter. Remember that lady? The virgin queen?

[01:10:35] She wasn't a virgin, just in case you know she wasn't. She just didn't get married, but she was out here doing it. Anyway. Oh, so Elizabeth, so apparently, she called Queen Elizabeth up, and she went to the palace, she walked in barefoot. And she was just being herself. And she's like, I'm here, and I need to have a chat with you.

[01:10:57] And Queen Elizabeth apparently offered her a hanky. [01:11:00] And she wiped her nose with it and threw it in the fire. And said, in Ireland, we don't carry around dirty things.

[01:11:11] Oh my god. Apparently, everybody in court gasped. Like, like. And she looked at them like, what's the problem? Like I said, I'm not touching that. It's like I came here to talk to one person and one person only and her name is Queen Elizabeth. So where's she at? Let's go. So they had a chat and apparently Queen Elizabeth, I think because they were both very differently But they were both, like, strong women.

[01:11:40] I think Queen Elizabeth was like, Wow, this is a lot for you, right? And Grace is like Actually, I can handle it, but I actually just don't want to anymore. So can you fix your people? Because I'm tired. So Queen Elizabeth's like, Okay. Like, she just did whatever Grace said. Also, probably Queen Elizabeth was probably a little scared of Grace because I would have been.

[01:11:57] Oh yeah. Yeah. [01:12:00] She was like, she's like, this lady does not. I'd be

[01:12:02] Clare: shocked if she wasn't.

[01:12:05] Ashley: And he was like, I am so frightened by this woman. She's not wearing shoes. She came in here. She threw my hanky in the fire. I'm actually very intimidated by her. She got everything she wanted. So what Grace wanted was, she wanted to be able to sail around Irish waters without being bothered.

[01:12:24] She said, just leave me in my boat, leave me alone. Then, she wanted them to lower taxes on the Irish, which they did for a while, until Queen Elizabeth died, they had lowered taxes just because of Grace. And she told, Mr. Bingham leave me alone. She said tell that man to leave me alone and Elizabeth's like I'm gonna give you one better I'm gonna write you a note with my seal.

[01:12:46] You can hand deliver it to him. Tell him I sent you and she's like Thank you. She took the note over to Bingham. She's like, oh, you know that lady the Queen? She has a message for you. Leave me the fuck alone And she walked she dropped her mic and she walked back on her [01:13:00] ship and she left and from then on Until she was 65.

[01:13:06] She was just on her boat living being a pirate till she was 65 That's when she died and she died on the sea, which she loved So we're just here to say grace Thank you for being a sacred ancestor for seafaring people for badass bitches everywhere For Irish people, thank you just for being awesome And not giving a fuck, because you're, she, Grace, oh, I, what I read about this woman, I said, wow, how come nobody told me about her?

[01:13:40] She's so cool. She's so cool.

[01:13:43] Clare: And we could honestly use more women like her in the world today, I feel like. I feel like a lot of conflict would get resolved really quick if we showed up.

[01:13:53] Ashley: Gracie just show up with her knife and be like, say that again. What's the problem? [01:14:00] Oh, sorry. Sorry. And I'm

[01:14:02] Clare: an advocate for violence. I'm just

[01:14:04] Ashley: saying that things would get resolved very quickly. Everyone's like, sorry, Mr. O'Malley. She's like, that's what I thought. Some respect on my name.

[01:14:16] Oh, God. Oh, I love it. I'm so happy that we know more about Grace now. That's our story time, everybody. And that brings us to the end of our show. Claire, this has been so fun. This has been a joy. Thank you for being with us. Just remind everybody where they can find you on the internet. Yeah.

[01:14:38] Clare: On the internet I am known as clearly Close, which by the way, people ask me why that's my name just because it's clearly close to Claire. Like if you like clear, you rearrange the letter. Oh, yeah. Okay. Anyways, that's where it comes from. I just don't look at it one day. It doesn't really mean anything. . That's fine. So clearly close on TikTok [01:15:00] and I also am on Instagram as well. You can find

[01:15:03] Ashley: me on there.

[01:15:04] Yay, thank you so much Claire. This has been great. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. Yes. Oh good I'm so glad. So everybody again, you're listening to Dine with the Divine. Remember that you want to subscribe So you always get us every Thursday Give us a rating if you like a review if you like that's always helpful.

[01:15:25] You can email me at Dine with the Divine at Dine with the Divine Pod at gmail. com if you have any questions or comments or anything like that. If you want to follow me, Ashley, I'm SankofaHS. That's S A N K O F A and Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. Thank you so much. Thank you again, Claire, and we'll see all you guys next week.

[01:15:47] Bye!