Southeast Asian Ghouls, Durians, and a Love Story with Sun and Sha

Sha and Sun

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Diamond the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the ancient, the magical, mystical, and everything in between. On today's episode, we're going to talk about some South Asian ghouls and a tragic love story that includes a shape shifting crocodile. Hi, everybody.

[00:00:25] Once again, I hope you're all having a wonderful day, and if not, I hope it gets better real soon. So today, We have a twofer we have two awesome guests. I'm so excited about this. Our first well, I'll introduce one and then the other. Obviously, that's how things go. Why do I have to say that I'm going to edit that out.

[00:00:42] So our first, our first guest here is Ambison. So son is a Wow, where'd my notes go? Sun is a Malaysian born graphic designer and illustrator based in Melbourne, Australia. Her illustration style is intricate and often features florals and stars. [00:01:00] As an illustrator, she aims to create work that does not confine to personal expression, but is educational and also deeply intertwined with the human experience.

[00:01:09] Through her work, she aspires to bridge the gap between the ordinary and fantastical, inviting audiences to explore the depths of their imagination. and connect with the universal aspects of human experience through lines and colors. At the core of her purpose lies the belief that art possesses the unique ability to change barriers, unite cultures, and challenge perceptions.

[00:01:31] Our second amazing guest is Shah Ruz. Shah is a Malaysian multidisciplinary designer with formal training in interior design and architecture. Part of her disciplines include the weaving of stories, either in writing, following the oral tradition or as a game master for one of the many tabletop role playing games.

[00:01:51] Shaw is also a person with disability, a PWD, living with spinal muscular atrophy, and an activist fighting for the inclusion [00:02:00] of PWDs in society and the building environment. Yay! I'm so excited to talk to you guys. How are you? Thank you for having

[00:02:09] Sha: us. We're just delighted to be here. I do have to make a correction.

[00:02:15] Instead of South Asian, we are Southeast Asian.

[00:02:18] Ashley: Oh, sorry. My bad. No, it's okay.

[00:02:22] Sun: I have dyslexia, so I can't read. So I'm totally, like, understanding when someone misses a word. Cause I, I read things really bad. Like, even when I'm just reading on my own. I'll read a sentence, and I'm just like, Wait, why did he say that?

[00:02:35] And I'm just like, okay, no, I read it wrong. Never mind. It's all good.

[00:02:39] Ashley: No, I do it all the time sometimes. I even with numbers. I'll read numbers and skip a number entirely. Yeah, and I'm like, why? I don't know. I apologize. Southeast Asian. So I'm very excited because I saw Okay, let's start at the very beginning.

[00:02:57] You guys have a deck that's coming out that that's on [00:03:00] Kickstarter right now called the Tales and Oracle of Eleven. And it is including stories from 11 of the Southeast Asian countries. And these countries include Brunei, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand.

[00:03:19] And I'm gonna say this wrong. But I'm going to try my best. Timor Lurussa. Am I saying that right? it's Timor Lurussai. Okay, perfect. Thank you for telling me how to say that. Cause I was like, oh no, I didn't practice this one. I was like, I should have Googled this. I didn't practice it. Okay. Timor Lurasi.

[00:03:41] Alright, now I know how to say that. Is that formally called East Timor? Is that? Okay, here's,

[00:03:47] Sha: here's the thing. So we had a discussion about this on a different cast with an actual, one of our artists. from Timor Leste, officially Timor Leste is called Timor Leste, [00:04:00] which means East in Portuguese. Oh, it means East East.

[00:04:05] Yeah, it just means East. Okay. When they first gained independence, there was a homegrown grassroots movement to call Timor Leste Timor Leste, which means the land of the rising sun, essentially. I love that. Okay. Yeah, but I guess it never caught on. So here we are sitting on the mountain that is Timor Lorecei and hoping it catches

[00:04:29] Ashley: on.

[00:04:30] Yeah, okay. I also had to do a little research about Myanmar. Because I know when you research and you look stuff up, sometimes it's Burma, sometimes it's Myanmar. So I was like, I don't want to get this wrong. But then I was looking it up. So they were like, formally, More, the more formal name for Burma is Myanmar, but technically they're both correct.

[00:04:53] It is a colonization issue, but it's not, it's not like the British named it. It's just like the people, the language they speak [00:05:00] is Mayan Ma, I believe, and so they can be called Myanmar, but they all are also called the Burmese people. So I just want everybody to know that.

[00:05:08] I'm not intentionally getting anything wrong. If I go between both, it's this is just a fact of life and I will put up a article about which one because I don't want to get anything wrong. Okay, now we've talked about that back to the actual deck. I really love one thing that caught my eye was I feel like a lot of these different countries in your decks.

[00:05:31] Don't get a lot of attention when it comes to people kind of looking into their spiritual traditions. Now, I would say, there's a lot of people who know a lot about Thailand, because Thailand's a big destination for vacationing and things like that. And a lot of people know a lot about the Philippines, maybe it's just because where I live, I am around a lot of Filipino people, so maybe I just know a lot about the Philippines, I don't know.

[00:05:55] But I feel like a lot of these countries don't get a lot of [00:06:00] love in the way that people aren't really looking into their history and their culture. So I was like, wow, this is so cool, I'm so glad that you guys are highlighting, like a country like Brunei. People don't really know a lot about it.

[00:06:12] And I actually just watched this whole video about like how hard it is to actually go and visit Virunai, but it's literally because they're like, please don't come mess up our country with your shit. We want to keep it nice. And people keep going to these other countries and messing it up. So we don't really want all these tourists, which I'm like.

[00:06:32] Fair. And then countries like Laos, again, I said this on a previous episode, I think the only thing I know about Laos is Brenda Song from The Suite Life. Yeah,

[00:06:41] Sun: yeah, she might have reckoned Cody, yeah.

[00:06:43] Ashley: Yes, that is the most that I know about Laos and that is my claim to fame that I'm like, I know something.

[00:06:50] Got it. Read the song at least from there.

[00:06:53] Sha: It's really funny. So one of the last videos that we'll be publishing is Laos. And the problem that I [00:07:00] had pretty much from the get go is asking our Laotian friend, Is it Lao or is it Laos? And then she was like, she's not sure either because Laos, the name is given by the French colonialists.

[00:07:15] Okay. Like, there's a whole history there. Even she's like, Meh, we're just gonna use it interchangeably.

[00:07:23] Ashley: Ugh, here's the thing about colonialism. It fucked everything up. Because there's so many countries in the world that either have not gotten the chance yet to change their name back to what it was originally, or I was saying actually this the other day, and in terms of also certain indigenous communities, like, there's a lot of things that...

[00:07:44] I grew up, I'm grown up in the United States, so there's a lot of things that I'll say, or do, and I think I'm correct, because that's what I've always been told, but it is wrong, because I don't know anybody from that place, so I do try my best to educate myself, sometimes [00:08:00] it's hard, and I haven't done, everything, but a lot of these things are from colonialism, they're like, oh, call this this, and we've all been like, okay.

[00:08:07] And then you meet people from that place, and they're like, actually, that's not how you say it all. You're like, damn, that's crazy. I'm so sorry. I know

[00:08:17] Sha: how you feel. Because when where I come from, which is Malaysia, fortunately for me, I'm from the urban areas, but I still live in a bubble. So there's a lot of countries in Southeast Asia itself that, again, you mentioned doesn't have a lot of airtime.

[00:08:33] Yeah, even I don't know them.

[00:08:37] Ashley: It's wild. It's crazy. Even the thing I know about Singapore is that it's very clean. Like, that's all I know. I mean,

[00:08:47] Sha: I don't want to say anything

[00:08:51] about

[00:08:52] Sun: Singapore. I'm just tired. They're very patriotic. Yeah, I don't know if you noticed, but Singapore used to be part of Malaysia. And then we split. Oh! Yeah, so like, it's like, a lot of our [00:09:00] cultures are very intertwined. When Sha was doing research on Singaporean stories, it was also very difficult for her as well, because the island itself, because all of our cultures are very intermixed.

[00:09:10] It's just like, which one is from the, quotation mark, mainland, which one's from the island, like, they're all, kind of together. And I think a lot of Southeast Asian stories, when we were doing the research it's like, you find one story in a country, and then you see another similar version of it in another country.

[00:09:26] But it's because I think our cultures are so what were you saying? Like, we were like, Oh,

[00:09:31] Sha: We are so incredibly intertwined. The easiest way to divide Southeast Asia as it currently stands is the Indochine region, which is the Mekong gang and the Nusantara, which is the, the ocean gang. Okay. And, and even within that, like way before that, I can only say things about Nusantara because you know, that's where we live.

[00:09:55] We had the Mahi Empire. We had the Empire, [00:10:00] which are both Hindu religious wise, Hindu Empires in mm-hmm. , I don't know, like the 13 hundreds or something. Somebody will correct me. Definitely . My, my history is kind of shaky on this part 'cause we, we had to learn this in like, grade six.

[00:10:15] Ashley: Yeah, that's okay.

[00:10:18] There's been, yes, and we're gonna get into it a little bit later, but there's so much when we talk you'll see, but there's a lot of influence there's a lot of Hindu influence and Buddhist influence in a lot of stories, and when I was looking up different, you know, spiritual creatures and different things like that in the Southeast Asian region, it's like This creature is prevalent in the mythology of Cambodia, Indonesia, and Singapore.

[00:10:47] There may be called something slightly different in each country, but it's generally the same kind of creature. So I was, I thought that was really interesting. Just like you're saying, Shaw, like everything is intertwined, just like you also just said, son,[00:11:00] I did not know that Malaysia and Singapore were one place before that.

[00:11:03] So there's so many islands there. I'm just like, when you look at that area, the, the ocean area, like you were just talking about, it's hard if without labels, I don't know which part is which, I don't know which is Malaysia, which is the Philippines, which is Indonesia, because they're all just a bunch of islands.

[00:11:23] And there's so many of them. And I'm like, wow, Before, and I'm saying this probably before colonization, the amount of cultures and languages that must have just been in that area must have been like, head spinning. Everybody must have had so, there's so much differences similarities, but so many different things.

[00:11:40] And I don't know about Southeast Asia. You guys can tell me if you, if you find this, but like, I know, in, in Africa, a lot of the time, you look at different cultures, and the way they cut up Africa was wrong, and I could do a whole episode about that but the, the British and the French and all those assholes came and [00:12:00] They cut us up, and they didn't match us with where we needed to be matched.

[00:12:03] They just kind of put us in certain places. Which then ended up sometimes being good, but sometimes being bad. Because we were like, wait, we don't really like these guys. I don't know why we have to live with them now and pay the same government taxes. We were never supposed to be together. Like, my ethnic group and your ethnic group are completely different.

[00:12:22] But I don't know if it's like that in Southeast Asia, definitely

[00:12:25] Sha: is. There's one point, one point of contention that I, I want to bring up. And it is, it is something that's kind of very touchy with a lot of Thai people. It is the whole conflict in Southern Thailand because way back when the British drew lines of delineation to gift Thailand at that time.

[00:12:46] So I think it was, I don't. I don't know if it was still Ayutthaya or considered Siam proper, but the British came in and said, Hey be friends with us and help us take over the world. We'll give you South Thailand, [00:13:00] which you've been wanting and coveting for the past 200 years. , we'll just draw a line.

[00:13:06] And if you look at South Thailand, they are more closely related to Malay people. In Malaysia, but towards the north. Also, just randomly, Peninsula Malaysia is the

[00:13:19] Ashley: same size as Florida. Oh, okay. Hmm. So it's not as big. As people think. Yeah, I feel like it's just because of the ocean. People see the ocean around it so they're like, It's massive, like me.

[00:13:34] I was like, it's so many places. But yeah. It's this is, this is definitely, this is part of the reason I'm so excited to get your deck. This is a part of the world, and even doing the research, it was really fun. Because this is a part of the world I don't know too much about. And I'm like, damn, this is awesome.

[00:13:50] Like, there's so many different things going on there, and I was like, ooh. I just, I just really had a good time with it. So what inspired this deck in [00:14:00] the first place? What was like, you guys were like, this is going to be an awesome project. What made you want to do it?

[00:14:06] Sun: So is this kind of like a passion project for me?

[00:14:09] Cause when I was young, I was always really into like folklore and that kind of stuff. In my family, we practice Buddhism, but. Southeast Asia in general has a very, spiritual culture, like we have a lot of our own superstitions and things like that, and it's really interesting. So after I left the country and I became like a diaspora, and I'm just looking at how other people talk about their own culture and mythology, and you see such a popularity in things like Greek mythology or Norse mythology, and their stories are really interesting, but It made me think, hey, why does no one talk about our stories?

[00:14:45] Like, even if we do, it's very unlocalized. So when I would get books on our folklore it's either in Malay or it's in, because I read Mandarin, so it's in Mandarin or something. But I don't see much of it in English, even if I do. It's on, random blog posts online [00:15:00] that's, you have to really dig deep to look for it.

[00:15:02] Mm hmm. I started this and I just thought, hey, why don't I try to do something with this and see if it can help spread the culture and our word , our folklores and stuff like that. And I wanted to ask Sha to write for me because Sha, is one of the friends that I know that has a lot of interest and, knowledge in this kind of realm.

[00:15:23] She's always hyper fixated on, history and stuff. I thought. I am not a fantastic writer, but I think Sha would be an excellent writer, like just from the conversation you had with her earlier, you could tell how much knowledge she had just like ready on the top of her head. Like, I, my thing is I can't remember a lot of stuff, like I would know it, and I'll write it down.

[00:15:44] And I'll forget about it this

[00:15:48] podcast with me because , I, otherwise I have to be like, wait a minute, let me go get to my Excel sheet and grab my notes because I have it somewhere.

[00:15:59] Ashley: Yeah, I just

[00:15:59] Sun: [00:16:00] don't have it in my head right now. But yeah so Sha was going to in this project, it's a anthology and also an Oracle deck. So Sha is in charge of doing the story part of it, and for me, because I've published a tarot deck before, I'm quite familiar with this kind of like spiritual realm kind of stuff.

[00:16:17] For me, all of these stories, they all carry a very strong, moral message or a warning, which is why I thought it would be an excellent oracle deck, because the stories themselves are so interesting. And when I make my... Either a Tarot deck or Oracle deck, because this will be my third Oracle deck if it gets funded.

[00:16:34] I tried to put some of, like, educational themes into it. So the first one was an animal deck, and I tried to include some animal fun facts. And the second one I made was a botanical deck. And I tried to do research into, like, the flowers, the origins, where they came from. Like, or, hey, is this plant edible?

[00:16:51] Can you eat it? I've been watching a lot of the Black Forager. Oh yeah,

[00:16:56] Sha: I love her. I love

[00:16:57] Sun: her. And every time I see her talk about a [00:17:00] plant, I'm just like, should I risk it? Should I go out and try

[00:17:05] Ashley: this

[00:17:08] Sun: plant? You forager. I don't know what I'm eating because sometimes she'll say, this plant and this plant look alike and one of them will kill you.

[00:17:15] So don't read this one. I'm like, alright. Risky business.

[00:17:19] Ashley: That's, that's essentially how the

[00:17:21] Sha: movie and the book about the super tramp ended. He ate the wrong leaf and died.

[00:17:28] Ashley: It's the same with mushroom

[00:17:30] Sha: foraging. Like, no, don't put it in your mouth. In the wise words of the late Terry Pratchett.

[00:17:36] All mushrooms are edible once. I love that! But yeah, back to your question. So yeah, I

[00:17:48] Sun: basically asked Sha, Hey, do you want to, do you want to make this project with me? And she's like, What do you say Sha? I don't remember.

[00:17:56] Sha: Not even a question. Because I'm coming from A place where I love my [00:18:00] culture. And I only got to know my own culture as I got older. Because I went to an international school, before that I was in a private school so we were very living in our very Anglo centric bubble.

[00:18:14] And then as we grew up as a third culture kid, we're like, hey I don't know how to speak my own language. I don't know the oral histories of my country. I have traveled to western regions more than I have traveled in my own region. And that's kind of embarrassing. And then, Raya The Last Dragon came out.

[00:18:34] I watched it and I was like, what the hell is this bullshit?

[00:18:40] Ashley: It's

[00:18:41] Sha: pretty, but it's wrong.

[00:18:43] Sun: Yeah, I think it kind of matched to my, like, cause I think a lot of people think of Southeast Asia as one thing, but we're all so diverse. Every country, even though some of our stories and The mythical creatures like interlink and stuff. Our culture is so different and I [00:19:00] actually learned so much from just making this deck in this book by talking to our guest artists like a lot of our guest artists are so knowledgeable and especially I think With Timo Laura's Laura say I'm also pronouncing it wrong.

[00:19:13] It's like, I'm sorry, Lala. We're all going to

[00:19:15] Ashley: learn it together. It's like Lala

[00:19:24] Sun: from Timo Laura's say, like, has a really interesting story about their culture because they shout, correct me if I'm wrong, but they, their dad was, Okay,

[00:19:36] Sha: so the history of Timorese, as I know it, as a person who is not Timorese, is they were under the thumb of so many colonial powers for the longest time, and they only got their independence in 1990s.

[00:19:53] 2006 or

[00:19:55] Sun: 2002? I think it was 2002. I think it was 2002, because when I researched it, I was just like, oh, they could [00:20:00] just start drinking. Exactly.

[00:20:02] Sha: They're, the country just got into college, essentially.

[00:20:06] Ashley: And,

[00:20:08] Sha: and because of that, there are so many atrocities that happen, and one of them involved picking children up and making sure they were safe by whisking them away to a different country, and a majority of them ended in Portugal.

[00:20:22] Or Darwin in Australia, or they became boat people. And for Lala, her dad was stolen from the country. And I say stolen in the most charitable way. A priest came by and said, look, if you don't go with me, you're gonna die. Without telling his mom, without telling his family, he just got whisked away and he started living in Portugal.

[00:20:49] And the mom literally was told that he went to buy bread and he

[00:20:53] Ashley: never came back. Jesus Christ! Yeah. That's fucked

[00:20:59] Sha: up! [00:21:00] Yeah so it, there's a lot of these kind of histories when it comes to Southeast Asia. Again, I come from a very privileged background in that as countries under colonialist power, we were under the British, but we also were affluent enough to be able to gain our independence slightly earlier.

[00:21:18] But a lot of countries are still under that. You have Burma slash Myanmar, you have hang on, Cambodia, you have Vietnam, which is currently growing because of factories being moved from China to there, currently. But that's only because wages in Vietnam are so low they can be exploited.

[00:21:38] You know, I mean, yeah Yeah, yeah,

[00:21:40] Ashley: which is also fucked up. Wow

[00:21:44] Sha: so so there's there's a lot of things going on within the region itself and it's divided into countries because of politics essentially and Even that I cannot speak on behalf of them because I am NOT them. Yeah but[00:22:00]

[00:22:01] Ashley: But it's these are the types of things that are so important that all of us know though, I don't, again, I guess that I don't even know much about this region, but now I've learned a little bit and I'm like, man, , I gotta keep up with knowing what's going on. I see pictures here and there of different places, and I'm just like, Oh, that's pretty, and that's what I know.

[00:22:19] And I'm like, nah man, I gotta educate myself. Even when You guys were when I was like talking to you guys. I was like, oh Malaysia the first thing I think of when I think well two things There's a Malaysian restaurant not far from me and I order from them at least once every couple weeks because they're food

[00:22:44] Go ahead, I'm sorry, Shah.

[00:22:45] Sha: I'm, I'm just gonna, like, tangent really quickly to Of course! You talk about food. Southeast Asia has such a hate boner when it comes to comparing each other's food. We claim everything individually. Like, when somebody goes, yeah, laksa! And then Malaysia will [00:23:00] come in chat and be like, hey, laksa's mine.

[00:23:02] And then Singapore will be like, no, we make the best laksa. And then Indonesia will be like, the fuck you talking about? Laksa? What's up? Like, there's this huge just, just fight for food because

[00:23:16] Sun: all our food is really good. It's friendly sibling infighting, okay? Yeah, it's

[00:23:20] Sha: very sibling infighting. I love it.

[00:23:23] But it's so

[00:23:23] Ashley: funny at the same time. Yes, it's, okay, it's similar to Ghana. We make a very popular dish called jollof rice. And it's a big. Between Ghana and Nigeria, all the West African countries have their own Jollof rice, but the big ones are Ghana and Nigeria, and it has been a fight for years over who is making it right, and who is making it the best, we, they even developed a national Jollof day, where literally they just Like into TV stations, they have competitions, they get a Nigerian and a Ghanaian and we just like battle all day by cooking different types of Jollof rice because [00:24:00] nobody can decide where it came from and nobody can decide who's doing it right.

[00:24:03] Like, and it's, oh, it's becoming, my fiance is Nigerian, I'm Ghanaian and we argue about it at least monthly. I love

[00:24:11] Sun: this. I love

[00:24:13] Ashley: this so much. He'll be like, oh, like we'll order food, they'll be like, oh, you want to get African food? He's like, don't go to that Ghanaian place. Cause you know, I don't like it. I was like now I'm going because we're going to eat the right jollof rice.

[00:24:22] Cause I have no time for this. Yes. I'm like, we're not eating your mushy jollof

[00:24:30] rice. I'm getting my jollof rice. That's nice and a little more stiff and there's the flavors better. But anyway My We're gonna get into

[00:24:39] Sha: I'm gonna interject with another anecdote. Please do. I think a couple of years ago, or pre COVID, Masterchef did this thing in the UK, and a Malaysian I think it was a Malaysian did this thing called rendang, and one of the, one of the judges was like, this rendang [00:25:00] is not crispy.

[00:25:01] And then the entire Southeast Asian region that had rendang in their palate just bore down on the UK collectively and went, what are you talking about? Rendang is not crispy. It's a stew. You silly white

[00:25:14] Ashley: person. Oh!

[00:25:17] Sun: It's supposed to be soft and tender, like, I'm just like, what are we talking about? How do you have rendang in your life?

[00:25:24] Sha: I think it became trending on Reddit and pretty much everywhere. Hashtag crispy rendang. And it became such a meme that KFC in our country decided to use that as a hashtag as well. And started calling rendang flavored fried chicken.

[00:25:44] Sun: I love that. We are very serious about everything. It's not even an exotic dish, rendang. I think it's pretty, it's in terms of, is like quotation more exotic? I don't like the term, but I don't think it's that exotic that you wouldn't know that it's supposed to be soft.

[00:25:57] . Yeah. It's just oh, mind blowing[00:26:00] .

[00:26:00] Ashley: That's one thing I always think is interesting about those, about cooking shows. 'cause I love Master Chef, I love all this cooking shows, but sometimes they're like, Hmm, they'll, it'll be some food from somewhere that person isn't from.

[00:26:10] They're like, Hmm, this tastes wrong. And I'm like, are you sure? Because I don't think you're like, how do you know I'm not saying and unless to me, this is me. Unless you go somewhere. I'm sorry, I'm about to gender this. But unless you go to a country and if it's not someone's old grandmother cooking for me, I don't think it's authentic.

[00:26:30] Sorry, I just don't. I'm not. If I don't enter that country, and there's not an old woman in the kitchen. I'm Then I'm not eating the authentic. I don't want to go to the fancy restaurant. I want to go to the hole in the wall because I know Somebody's old grandma is gonna be praying for me in the back Which I appreciate and she's gonna be making the most delicious food.

[00:26:51] So When these, really, these judges who went to these amazingly fancy cooking schools and they work at like five star, or I think it's [00:27:00] three stars you can get in Michelin, I'm not sure, Michelin restaurants, I'm like, I don't think you actually know. Sorry, like, that's why I loved Anthony Bourdain, Rest in Power, because he went to the hole in the wall spots in every country.

[00:27:11] He didn't go to the most expensive and that's where you get the best food because it's made with that love and it's made with all the history and culture. I'm telling you.

[00:27:20] Sha: It's also, there's no hang up when food is made like that. That's how they grew up making it. That's how they're gonna die making it.

[00:27:26] That's how they're gonna teach their kids how to make it. It's not like French culinary cuisine techniques where you have to julienne something. No, no, it's just what you got. Use your knife. Hopefully you don't cut off your fingers. It's going to taste great. Eat up,

[00:27:42] Ashley: because you're not going to get anything else.

[00:27:44] That's it. And don't ask for any substitutions, because my mom in the back is not doing it. Like, she's like, ma'am. Exactly. It's like, oh, you have peanut allergies? Then you get to die. Yes. You have a peanut allergy? Then why did you come here? You put a lot of stuff in [00:28:00] peanut oil, you idiot! Did you do no research before you got here?

[00:28:05] Don't act stupid when you get here, please. Do a little research. Now we're gonna get to our dine part of our show. Because we're talking about Southeast Asia, I have to bring up my favorite thing that I just feel is necessary that we talk about. Because... It's an issue that everyone must know about.

[00:28:24] We're gonna talk about durians for a minute. Because, Because this is something everyone needs to be aware of. Quickly, a couple years ago, I read about a fruit that is a king of fruit, and it's very heavy. And in certain countries, it's illegal to bring it on public transport. And I said, pardon? What the hell's going on here?

[00:28:47] And I became slightly obsessed. With durians for a while because I was like, what is this fruit?

[00:28:57] One of my favorite things also about durians is [00:29:00] nobody And you guys can tell me if you've ever had them, but nobody can seem to describe how it tastes. Everyone's like no sven and I

[00:29:07] Sha: are,

[00:29:09] Sun: are... Pro durian.

[00:29:10] Sha: Very,

[00:29:11] Ashley: very big durian fans.

[00:29:13] Sha: We... Every time people come to Malaysia, the first thing we do is, we're gonna make you eat durian.

[00:29:20] Okay. We have a friend named Greta. She almost died. She cannot stand the smell. She liked the taste though. She just

[00:29:28] Ashley: said

[00:29:29] Sun: that if she doesn't smell it and just eats it, she's fine with it. Okay. It's because she smells it. And then it like, physically, like emotionally and physically damaged her. Like, my grandpa, remembers her till this day because...

[00:29:44] He remembered her stuffing her nose with tissue paper, trying to

[00:29:48] Ashley: eat

[00:29:51] Sha: the durian. And, okay, I will tell you another anecdote that happened to me in Melbourne. I followed the smell of

[00:29:59] Sun: durian. [00:30:00]

[00:30:01] Sha: I followed the smell of durian for 10 minutes into an alleyway. And I was very happy because I was like, oh, durian, I love durian.

[00:30:10] And when that alleyway ended, I was face to face with a huge garbage bin. And I will tell you factually that it smells like feet wet stinky socks, and onion. It is very pungent. I would say that it's like the Stilton cheese of Asia.

[00:30:34] Sun: But to be fair, like, you describe it like that, but I don't smell it like that.

[00:30:37] I smell it as something, like, very fragrant, because I think it's just either you like it or you don't like it. That's just one of those things, you like cheese or you don't like cheese, yeah.

[00:30:47] Sha: But it tastes gorgeous, and texturally, it's like custard. It tastes like a mix between pineapple and apple and so many beautiful things.

[00:30:58] If you can get over the smell [00:31:00] that attacks you.

[00:31:01] Sun: Yeah, and I think there's certain breeds as well. So in durian, there's multiple species of it. Some of them are very custody and sweet. But for people who regularly eat durian, like my parents and my grandparents, they prefer this. I don't know what the breed is.

[00:31:15] They get really into it. So there's certain breeds sell for higher prices or whatever. And they prefer what, some of them that taste a bit like, Alcohol? So you can get like a fermented alcohol taste into it that's a little bit bitter. So there's a whole like the

[00:31:32] sweet custardy one. It's the base level. And then you get to like the deeper complex texture, the umami flavor or something. Yeah. I'm a very big Durian fan. I don't know how people like it. But if you do go to Southeast Asia, try it once. Try it once. Just so you know.

[00:31:48] Sha: Yeah, so if you ever come to Malaysia, I will take you out and give you, like, the mildest, sweetest one with the, the least amount of smell, I hope.

[00:31:55] Because the one that I like is very pungent. It's also slightly bitter. [00:32:00] Okay. Like, it's sweet, but it's not too sweet, and it's slightly bitter, and the, the Malays have a cuisine where we ferment that durian so it becomes sour, and we eat it with rice. Okay. Like we really like stinky things.

[00:32:15] Ashley: So the thing that's hilarious, she said we really like, I just like It's so much for you to process. I know. Because I'm just like, oh my God, this is so intense. First of all, Okay, let's start at the beginning from everything you guys just said All right, so i've read everything you guys have said It's different things i've read some people are like, oh it tastes like you're just saying like this sweet Pineapple and apple seeds and some people are like it could be a little bit more like savory Like somebody just said oniony kind of taste one time but Which I believe.

[00:32:54] I believe everything. Because every time I read it, people were like, okay, it tastes different. But [00:33:00] now, like you just said, son, makes sense. Obviously, there's more than one type. People are having probably different types. Everybody, if you guys have never seen a durian, I'm gonna put a whole article about durians in the show notes.

[00:33:13] And I'm gonna put some pictures of durians on the blog so everybody can say, Okay, just, so here's some facts about durians. Some of them are reiterations of what just Sean and Sun just said, but this is what you guys should know. Alright, it has a very unique appearance, so on the, it kind of looks like spiky on the, on the outside.

[00:33:32] It looks like a spiky football. That's what it looks like. It's huge. It can be up to seven pounds, actually. , they're big fruits. They're called the King of Fruit. That's another nickname in certain places. And as I mentioned before, in certain countries so we have here, it says Thailand, Japan, and Hong Kong.

[00:33:49] It is not, you're not allowed to bring it on public transport because it smells. So stinky as everybody has been just saying Apparently in some in some countries you can get a fine [00:34:00] if you get on there and everyone's like, oh, she's got a durian You're getting in trouble. All right, you're gonna get fined by the police because everyone is uncomfortable and then some places they say you can Laugh because I read it was like In some countries, if a taxi driver sees you holding one, they're not gonna stop for you.

[00:34:23] They don't want their taxi to smell like me.

[00:34:26] Sha: That is honestly it. If you have durians in your car, the smell will stick for three days. Ooh,

[00:34:32] Ashley: 100%. Okay, no wonder the taxi drivers...

[00:34:36] Sun: If you like it, it's fine. But if you don't like it... I

[00:34:39] Sha: love it. If I go into a car that had durian and I smell that, I immediately feel hungry.

[00:34:45] Sun: Yeah, so my, okay, backstory, my grandpa lives in the middle of a mountain of nowhere Seremban and he has a whole durian orchard, I say orchard, but it's five trees, and so whenever during [00:35:00] durian season he will come down with like mountains of it, and the thing with durian is if you eat too much of it, you can get a sore throat so you have to counter it by eating mangosteen, and Because in Chinese culture, we have this thing called and I'll explain it.

[00:35:13] I hope I'm explaining this correctly. We have this thing called heaty like you get heat from eating something so it causes you to get inflammation and sore throat So to counter that you have to eat this other fruit We have called mangosteen and when you eat that it's supposed to cool cool your body down I'm guessing there's a science behind it Although I don't know what it is.

[00:35:35] It is very common when you eat durian, you also eat mangosteen with it. And you're highly encouraged to gargle your throat with salt water after. Just to make sure. Because especially with people like me, who's addicted. I would just keep eating it, like non stop. And then my mom would stop me, stop it!

[00:35:50] Like, that's the fourth box! I'm like, there's so many of them! I have to eat it! I come back home once a year!

[00:35:55] Sha: It Yeah, it's like

[00:35:57] Sun: imagine when my grandpa comes [00:36:00] over with all these durians, it's just oh my god, this is like, when you buy it outside, it's probably a few hundred dollars, he gets it for free from his tree.

[00:36:07] Also, durian ripens when it falls, so you have to wear a shell when you go out to collect them, in case it falls so

[00:36:14] Sha: freaking dangerous. You might die. It's literally the reason why, you know how people talk about burial practices, I would love to be buried with a durian seed, so When I die, and it grows into a tree, I can just have it fall on people I don't like.

[00:36:27] Ashley: Hey, sounds good to me. That's like the ultimate revenge. You're like, look at this! I just have a durian tree grow out of my body. If you piss me off, you're gonna get one on the head. Yeah, like we were saying before, it's a heavy fruit, so that makes sense. It's gonna hurt you if you're up there on the mountain, and you're not have, you don't have a helmet on.

[00:36:46] I'm gonna get hurt. Okay. So also the thing about durian is it's a super fruit. It's really, really healthy. It's really good for you. It's rich in iron, vitamin C, potassium. It can improve muscle strength, skin health, [00:37:00] and even lowers your blood pressure. Furthermore, one small durian contains 23 grams of dietary fiber, which is great, which is your nutritional requirement of fiber per day.

[00:37:11] And then, just like you were just saying son, however, it's important not to eat them in excess because in 2010, Malaysian politician Ahmed Lai Bujan, I hope, I hope, sorry if I butchered the name was rushed to the hospital complaining of breathlessness and dizziness after gorging himself on durian. So be careful everybody, don't, you can't eat too much.

[00:37:34] Cause , like Sunset, if you don't have some mangosteen, if you're not gargling your throat, if you're not taking the proper precautions, you might get into some trouble. So be careful.

[00:37:42] Sha: This is anecdotal in the fact that I've never experienced it, but you should never eat durian and drink alcohol because that will mess you up.

[00:37:51] Ashley: Oh, really? Oh no. That's crazy. As much as you In the [00:38:00] beginning of this conversation made me want to eat durian. Now, I'm like, there's so many rules around eating this fruit. I don't know if I can handle this. I think

[00:38:07] Sha: the easiest way is durian is your meal replacement. It is so high in fat and carbohydrates and sugar and protein and all these things that when you eat it, you are full.

[00:38:17] If you're diabetic, I... Don't think you should eat it. At

[00:38:21] Ashley: all. That is a bad

[00:38:23] Sha: idea.

[00:38:24] Sun: But to be fair, I think nowadays, Malaysia has been getting better at creating desserts out of durian that's more palatable to a lot of foreigners for the first time. Because when you're trying it for the first time, it could be very jarring to eat the fruit.

[00:38:39] They have durian cheesecake durian tart and like chocolate cake or things like that, which I think it's more palatable to someone who's trying it for the first time. Like you want to try durian, but you're kind of scared to go in to get like the real thing. So you can try some, either a cake or like an ice cream that's made from it.

[00:38:55] And then just see how you go from there.

[00:38:57] Sha: And I remember there was a [00:39:00] durian eating challenge that spread through the internet a few years ago. It is so vexing to watch people who don't know how to open durian like they cut it into half and you're like No, it's like an orange. You segmented you crazy people.

[00:39:15] Ashley: Stop it

[00:39:20] You guys I'm again, I'm not sure I'm getting nervous but again, like you said maybe I have to try in the cheesecake or

[00:39:30] Sha: The smell would be less, as well, in a cheesecake.

[00:39:33] Ashley: I guarantee. I trust you guys, but I'm also getting nervous about this. Okay also, So we have another thing that says that the fruit changes significantly over a short period of time. When it's harvested early, it's almost considered a vegetable because the flesh is hard and easy to handle and bitter.

[00:39:50] Rather than sweet, people Who enjoy eating durian, usually prefer the fruit to be over ripened when the citrus and sweet flavors are much more [00:40:00] predominant. And it also seems like it becomes messier at that point, kinda like a... I would think like a mango. When it's hard, it's easy. You cut it up, but when it's messier, it also tastes better anyway.

[00:40:10] And, oh, just like you just said, son, traditionally, durians are eaten after they've fallen on the ground by themselves. Some places, they harvest them so they'll take them off the trees, but it's saying the best way is after it's already... Heart fall into the ground. And, oh, here we go. There's over 30 different varieties of durian, and the fruit is native to Malaysia, Indonesia, and Borneo.

[00:40:34] A quick question, if you guys know the answer to this, and I should have Googled it. Is Borneo part of Malaysia? It is

[00:40:40] Sha: both. It's an island that contains Malaysia, Brunei, and

[00:40:46] Ashley: Indonesia. Okay, alright, I always get mixed up. Cause you know, the only thing I know about Borneo is that they're always going on there on Naked and Afraid.

[00:40:54] They love a Borneo adventure. And... I was like, [00:41:00] what? Is

[00:41:00] Sun: that a reality

[00:41:01] Ashley: show? Yeah, it's a reality show.

[00:41:04] Sun: So do they actually throw them into an island naked?

[00:41:08] Ashley: Yeah.

[00:41:09] Sha: It's weird. Yeah. This is like intense survivor. Yeah. The only reality show that I remember that had Borneo on the front and center is Survivor.

[00:41:21] Survivor Pulau Tiga. And tiga means three, by the way. Pulau means island. Okay. So that's, that's the only one I know. I didn't know they just kept dropping people into Borneo. Yeah. Like,

[00:41:33] Ashley: stop it. Cause they were basically, I watched one episode and they dropped them there cause they, and they explained that like Borneo has, a very rich, diverse, flora and fauna, but it also is just, very hard if you're, like, to just survive.

[00:41:47] They're like, if you have nothing, basically, they're like, this place is really hard to survive in. Let's put people here. And so they do. Yeah, they're like, if you don't have any materials, , you're gonna have a rough [00:42:00] time. That's the only thing I knew about Borneo, but I always, couldn't figure out which country it was part of, but now I understand.

[00:42:05] Okay. Yeah.

[00:42:07] Sun: The humidity and mosquitoes probably will kill them first.

[00:42:10] Sha: Yeah, you'll

[00:42:11] Sun: probably... I think a lot of people, yeah, comes in when the humidity just gets to them. If

[00:42:16] Sha: anything, you're probably gonna die of dengue.

[00:42:20] Ashley: It's no good. If you want to compare,

[00:42:24] Sha: like, ways to survive, I think, I think being in the equator...

[00:42:29] Without clothes or anything is the best place to be because I, I will not live if you drop me in the middle of the Siberian jungle where it's cold. , there is nothing there. At least in the jungle, you can find water, you can find fruits, you can find shoots and leaves that you can eat, you can hunt animals, you can eat grubs.

[00:42:49] There's, there's so many things. It's just that how you want to wrap your head around eating bugs is, is, you know, culturally. Not normal. . So [00:43:00] like if if you were to choose where to get dropped off, I would pick Equatorial jungles,

[00:43:07] Ashley: definitely. Yeah, at least they have a lot of materials, but yeah, I don't want to be hot.

[00:43:13] I don't want flies. I don't like a fly. And I don't want to get dengue fever. That sounds like it probably sucks. We're not going to do that. It's, yeah, it sounds awful. The other, the last thing I'll say about durians here is It has expired architecture, apparently, so Singapore's official fruit is the durian and there is a building next to Marina Bay in Singapore that is inspired by a durian.

[00:43:40] It's very cool it's called the Esplanade. The Esplanade? Yeah. Are you also

[00:43:48] Sun: googling

[00:43:51] Ashley: it now? I was like, I have to go find this. I love how Sun made a face and turned around like, I have to google this immediately. I [00:44:00] saw her and I was like, there, there, there it is.

[00:44:05] Sha: I didn't know it was based on a durian.

[00:44:08] Ashley: Yeah, honestly, it's based onur and it kind. Yeah, it may, it looks just like a durian on the outside, the spikes and everything. I, I like to see this a lot. Commit Singapore, the spikes a bit more

[00:44:21] Wow.

[00:44:22] Sha: I like to say this a lot about Singapore. Singapore and Malaysia has a very, sibling rivalry energy in that Singapore is very good at marketing itself and Malaysia is the very jealous older sister.

[00:44:39] Sun: I think in Malaysia we like to joke that we're allowed to make fun of Singapore because like they're already they're technologically or economically more advanced than us. So we only have food, so they cannot take food away from us. It's ours. Our food is

[00:44:55] Ashley: better, and that's it. I was actually reading something about, like, I [00:45:00] was reading, like, a travel blogger or something, talking about how they went to Singapore, and they were saying, for them, it was more like...

[00:45:09] Singapore was like the Las Vegas of South East Asia to them, and they felt very much that it was nice. They said it was nice, and it was cool, but they felt like they wanted more some people go on vacation to go to a Las Vegas y kind of place, like that's why I feel like people go to Dubai and stuff, and some people go to experience a different culture, so they were like, eh, Singapore was not really the place for that, and I don't know if they were just like, in a city, maybe it's different in the outskirts, but it's

[00:45:36] Sha: Okay let me, let me just posit this.

[00:45:38] Yes. Singapore, you can get from one end to the other in 45 minutes. It is really small. And the

[00:45:45] Sun: whole island is a city.

[00:45:47] Sha: So you know the movie Crazy Rich Asians? Yes. A majority of the footage was filmed in Malaysia. Okay. Like, 95% of the [00:46:00] places they were at is Malaysian.

[00:46:02] Ashley: Ohhh.

[00:46:03] Sha: Because they don't have, like, huge jungles.

[00:46:07] Ashley: Yeah, it doesn't look like it. And also, Again, things I know about Singapore. I have not watched Crazy Rich Asians, please. I know it's a shameful thing. I'm like the only person on earth who's never seen it. No, no, you watch it. I feel like I'm the only person on earth who never watched it. And I was like, damn.

[00:46:26] Everyone's like, it's so good, you should watch it. And I'm like, I don't

[00:46:29] Sha: know. People talk about Crazy Rich Asians. There's one line that I remember absolutely, and I'm not going to spoil it for anyone. But really, it's just, You know the, the TV show Gossip Girl?

[00:46:40] Ashley: But

[00:46:40] Sha: Asian.

[00:46:41] Ashley: Okay. Okay. I know. I did watch the Bling Empire for the first season at least, and the guy from Bling Empire, the one of the main guys, he's from, I believe he's from Singapore, I have to make sure I'm right, but I think he is from Singapore, and he's from a very affluent family from there.

[00:46:59] [00:47:00] And he was very funny and I enjoyed him. Okay, so enough about Singapore and the melee sister ship, brother ship, sibling ship. But now we know that you can get across Singapore in 45 minutes. I did not know that. Very interesting. Come to Malaysia.

[00:47:17] Sun: We have, we have so many interesting islands and like...

[00:47:21] Mountains and caves. We have hot springs. And

[00:47:23] Sha: food.

[00:47:25] Ashley: Food. Okay, real quick, because like, I was like, okay, the durian thing was very important and we had to talk about it. I'm not going to go super into this, but I put, I will put in the show notes, I found a really nice article called 27 Malaysian street foods that you need to eat in this lifetime.

[00:47:39] So I'm going to mention a couple of them. And I'll mention the one that I like, that I get from my local Malaysian restaurant, which is roti canai. I hope I'm saying that it's

[00:47:49] Sha: Roti Canai. Oh Jesus, I'm sorry. It's named after the city in India called Chennai. Okay. Because it's actually an Indian food.

[00:47:58] Ashley: Okay that one I [00:48:00] like. But it's like,

[00:48:01] Sun: it's also kind of Malaysian, right? Like, I would

[00:48:04] Sha: say. It's Malaysian in that everybody has this flatbread. It has a different name everywhere. Like, even Thailand has their version of it. But theirs is more

[00:48:13] Ashley: sweet. Okay the food, it's good. You guys just know that.

[00:48:17] And I always get probably, it's like curry mee soup. Yes,

[00:48:21] Sha: so that is one of our laksas. We have, I, I don't know, upwards of 14 different kinds of laksa, one for every state. And mee curry, which is the one that you're talking about, is one of the more popular ones.

[00:48:36] Ashley: Okay. I literally could I literally could eat caramie soup.

[00:48:41] Daily. It's one of my favorite things on earth. It's delicious. The one that I get at my restaurant has chicken and shrimp in it with the noodles. And sometimes what I like to do , what I like to do is get on the side some coconut rice, and then I put it in like at the, [00:49:00] when I've eaten, like the protein and the starch part of it.

[00:49:02] And I mix it in. God, it's so good. I could watch myself all day and all night on it. Shout out to Penang in Princeton. They have my number on file.

[00:49:14] Sha: Like it's a whole ass state in Malaysia and it does have one of the better foods or rather it's more prominently like the state you want to go to to indulge in those kind of foods.

[00:49:26] Ashley: They know me when I call. It's not an issue. They know what I'm gonna order. It's great! So I love it. Okay, so we're gonna, I'm gonna do the part of the show where I plug myself real quick and then we're gonna move on.

[00:49:40] If you guys enjoy this show, please follow me and subscribe on wherever you like to subscribe. That could be Apple, Google Podcasts, whatever. And if you really like the show, feel free to leave us a review that helps other people find us. And if you really, really like me, you can always leave me a tip [00:50:00] and it's in the show notes if you want to do that.

[00:50:01] And if you have any questions, comments, or constructive critiques, feel free to email me at dinewithadivinepod at gmail. com. Woohoo! Okay. Now, we're gonna go to our next section of the show, which we call Tea Time, where we're gonna learn something. You guys have your deck where you're going to tell different folklore stories and what you also know a lot about the spiritual aspects of Southeast Asia.

[00:50:28] So I was like, you know what we're going to look up? I'm going to look up some interesting mystical creatures and mythological creatures in Southeast Asia. And just like we were talking in the beginning, there's a lot of similarities in some of them. Which I thought was really interesting.

[00:50:45] I tried to group them by country, but that just didn't work. It just...

[00:50:50] Sun: Yeah, it's not gonna, it's too many. You have

[00:50:53] Sha: to group them actually by religion, because you have to also remember that Southeast Asia is predominantly [00:51:00] a trading sort of empire, so you have things coming down from China, from India, so a lot of the, the creatures that we have, aside from things that, Became they came into the process by animism and I forgot the other one is through religion.

[00:51:16] So the Indian, the, the South Asian side gave us Mahabharata and I, I forgot the other one, but yeah so they gave us things like

[00:51:25] Ashley: the, the Indian, The

[00:51:29] Sun: Gita? Are you talking about religion?

[00:51:31] Sha: Yeah, yeah. So the religions inform the kind of creatures that exist. I can't, like the Garuda. Okay. It's a giant bird.

[00:51:41] But it's also considered a rock.

[00:51:44] Ashley: R. O. C. Okay. Yes. So

[00:51:47] Sha: different countries will have a version of the Garuda because it is inherently a Hindu myth. Hmm. That was transplanted into places like Bali because Bali is Hindu. For the longest time [00:52:00] the Centara region was very Hindu. Mm-hmm. , the Buddhism came from China.

[00:52:05] Mm-hmm. And

[00:52:06] Sun: in, I think Buddhism is from India. Sha, just to

[00:52:11] Ashley: Buddhism is a beautiful religion, okay? Let's start right there. But the interesting thing about Buddhism is Buddha Siddhartha Gama, the guy who started Buddhism, was from India. But then, it ended up not really being an Indian thing.

[00:52:29] India already had, they were like, we already have a major religion, calm down. So Buddhism ended up going to the east . So

[00:52:37] Sha: the thing about India is their mythology their religion is multiple gods that represent multiple things. So I think the enlightenment, this is me talking on my butt.

[00:52:51] So somebody will definitely correct me. You're good. Essentially, Buddha came along and talked about enlightenment, and then the East sort [00:53:00] of commandeered it. Because it sounds good to be cutting ties with your ego, you know, the whole concept of ego death. And then it spurned into Taoist Buddhism and Shinto Buddhism.

[00:53:14] But before that happened, it traveled down the line through the Silk Road, and

[00:53:19] Ashley: we got it. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, Buddhism. And in every Southeast Asian culture, there are different versions of it based on the culture that was already established there, right? And then also in other parts of Asia, like you just said, in China, you have Taoist Buddhism, and you have Shinto Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, different places have different versions, and they also have different, so the other thing about Buddhism that's interesting is Buddha technically was agnostic, right?

[00:53:56] Buddha was like, I don't know if there's a god, I mean, [00:54:00] maybe, but maybe not. There's spirits and stuff, but I don't know if there's like a supreme god or multiple. He didn't, it wasn't his point. His point was like, enlightenment like you just said Sha. A lot of the cultures that ended up taking on Buddhism also were like, Oh, we can just easily incorporate our...

[00:54:17] spirits into this, because great, they, he didn't say yes or no, so we'll say yes. And so they just put in their own and made it their own their own version of Buddhism, which is really cool. So that's why when you go to different places in these Buddhist centric countries, things will be slightly different.

[00:54:34] The way that they speak about different spirits will be slightly different, and it adds a little flavor. I love it. Thank you. Alright again, like I said, I tried to group things by countries, it breaks down later, so just sorry about that. The first mythological creature that we'll talk about...

[00:54:50] So the first one we're going to talk about is primarily in Myanmar. It's called Piek Ta, which is a quote unquote ghoul. So [00:55:00] it's some, it's a person who was living, but is no longer living, and they're being punished with perpetual thirst or hunger.

[00:55:07] And that sounds like that's Sucks. Wouldn't want that. This one I thought, I thought it was a little funny. It's called a Kiyut, a Kiyut, a malevolent armadillo like creature that assumes human form and tricks humans into barren forests. I was like, damn, not an armadillo trying to trick you.

[00:55:30] Sha: This is what I want to know. You see a cute armadillo and it's called the Kiyut. And you voluntarily follow this into the forest?

[00:55:38] Ashley: Who are you? And why? I would do it. Look, as someone

[00:55:44] Sun: who's susceptible to fae propaganda, I am that person. Yesterday, there was a wild, rabbit, like, right in front of our front yard.

[00:55:52] And I've just been staring at it. I was just like, you're so cute. And the poor thing was just trying to eat. And I'm just like, you're so cute. You're so cute. I [00:56:00] want to pet you. And then I had to pull myself away and

[00:56:08] Ashley: be like, bye! Goodbye! I mustn't

[00:56:09] Sha: follow you! Please do not fall into fey propaganda.

[00:56:11] We have so many fey and ghost stories in this region alone. Like, we live on it. We

[00:56:16] Sun: thrive on it. Look, my, my justification is that I'm not in Malaysia. It's not gonna hurt me.

[00:56:23] Ashley: It can't follow you back. That's how my fiancé says all the time, Voodoo doesn't work in America, it's too cold. I'm like, what does that mean?

[00:56:31] What about Louisiana? I, I, he, you cannot convince him that voodoo doesn't work outside of West Africa. He's like, it does, it's just not working. It can't follow me here. I'm like, what do you mean? That makes no sense. . I

[00:56:47] Sun: actually, I actually believe in that. Okay I have this weird thing. This is like... About myself like I have this weird thing like cuz I'm when I'm in Malaysia I'm very superstitious like I'm very I follow all of the superstitious law like [00:57:00] if you go into the jungle if you hear someone say your full name Don't turn around don't look at them at night if you're walking by yourself and you smell the scent of jasmine You better start running.

[00:57:09] He's very going so when I'm in Malaysia, I become very superstitious just because when I was younger, I had some I experienced a lot of like supernatural things, whether it was a figment of my imagination or if it was real, it doesn't really matter to me because it's okay, so that happened. I'm just going to be careful.

[00:57:26] But when I whenever I go overseas, I'm like, nah, it's not real. , they can't hurt me here. They don't have power here. It's too dry for them.

[00:57:34] Ashley: I'm

[00:57:35] Sha: going to compound on that and say that there are rules to how Ghosts and ghouls and spirits can travel according to like Malay ghosty, spooky things.

[00:57:49] They cannot cross moving water. Technically, if you go across the ocean, they can't

[00:57:54] Ashley: follow you. Oh, okay. But,

[00:57:56] Sha: if you go on a plane, From [00:58:00] Lao back to Malaysia, it can't follow you because there's a land

[00:58:02] Ashley: bridge. That's rude. That's messed up. That's not okay. There have been literally

[00:58:09] Sha: several stories that I have heard of from my family where they go to places like Angkor Wat or the other wats, and they come back and they have problems sleeping, they have nightmares, they see visions, they're just being spooked.

[00:58:25] And they have to go see like a spiritual healer to... Burn Sage or whatever. It's because they went to a place they're not supposed to be in. Or they took

[00:58:33] Sun: something they shouldn't have touched or taken. Yeah, that's

[00:58:36] Sha: another thing. , don't pick up random shit.

[00:58:38] Ashley: I don't like that Land Bridge rule. I don't think that's fair.

[00:58:43] I don't think

[00:58:45] Sun: that's fair. Just cross the ocean. Like,

[00:58:47] Ashley: who am I speaking to? Because I'm like, that's, there's water. Like, that's not fair. They need to stop with that. That's crazy. I don't like that. I'm still hung up about, sorry, the Lamberts.

[00:58:59] Sun: Yeah, this [00:59:00] is why I feel like Southeast Asian ghosts are scarier than any, like, Eurocentric ghosts. I'm so sorry, but, our Pontianak is scarier than your vampire. Your vampire, I can just throw garlic at it. The pontianak's gonna kill me. There's no garlic I can throw at it. It's just gonna kill me.

[00:59:15] It's

[00:59:15] Sha: not just rice. It's not sorry, it's not just garlic. It's literally, if you throw rice on the ground in front of, a Western vampire they will literally sit down and start counting it. No,

[00:59:25] Sun: that's Count Dracula, isn't it? Wait, no. No, no, no, it's

[00:59:27] Ashley: vampires in the Baltic regions,

[00:59:30] Sha: full stop. Like, that's one of their lore.

[00:59:33] to confuse them, you throw rice because they'll be compelled to count them. And I'm like, Oh, is that way they just don't exist in Asia? Because we eat rice.

[00:59:43] Ashley: They just get confused perpetually. Is that it? First of all, I love how you just brought that up. Cause that was the next spirit we were going to talk about.

[00:59:50] Is it Pontianak? Is that how you say it? Yeah. Yeah. And what everything you just said, let me tell you something last night is when I was looking up some of these beers. [01:00:00] I got so scared. I was, I was like, my God, why are these so scared? I'm thinking we got some cute ones. Like, I'm, I'm used to West African ghosts who are like, they're all just voodoo spirits trying to scare you.

[01:00:14] But it's fine. Like, I'm not that scared of them. Again, they're not crossing it. And I feel the same as you son. When I went to Ghana, I was way more Frightened of spirits than I was in the United States because I'm like they're here among me They're gonna get me like all my life I've grown up hearing these stories and I'm like now I'm in the land with them.

[01:00:37] Oh, no America I'm like they're not coming here. We have a Sorry, this makes me laugh. So we had a guest a couple weeks ago, his name is Mauricio, his family's from Mexico, and his grandmother would tell him a lot of different stories about things that would happen in Mexico, and his grandmother said to him, something similar to what we're saying, like, She said, do [01:01:00] you know why there's no ghost stories in America?

[01:01:04] And he said, why? And she said, because even the devil won't set foot in this country. And I said, hallelujah. It's a fact. Even the devil himself won't come to the United States. And I thought it was one of the funniest things I've ever heard. So I just had to mention that. But, alright, back to what I was saying.

[01:01:21] I was very scared and I don't get like, I, I'm not, I host a podcast about spirituality, but like, I like some stuff, but I'm not used to, you guys down in Southeast Asia aren't playing around with your ghouls. First of all, I don't know what it is about all these, women walking around.

[01:01:43] Who are trying to kill me. I'm just like every country. It's like this. Okay. So let me get back on topics. I'm sorry, everybody. Cause this is really, it was upsetting to me what I was doing. I was like, If I come to visit you guys down there, [01:02:00] I'm walking around with you 24 hours a day, and at night I'm not leaving the house after the sun goes down because I'm nervous.

[01:02:06] I'm going out in the day to eat all the food, I'm gonna gorge myself for hours, and I'm going back to wherever we're staying, and we're playing games. Because I'm not leaving the house at night. I'm sorry. Even if the nightlife is fun and we can go to like a night market, I'm not going. I can't because I'm frightened.

[01:02:22] I can't leave the house in any Southeast Asian country after about 7. 30. I've got to stay in touch. Let's talk about this one right here. Oh my god, the pon say it again one more time. Pontianak. Pontianak? Yeah. Yes, okay. This is what I have here. So again, I tried to break it up, but that was stupid.

[01:02:39] It's in Indonesia, Malaysia as you guys are saying. So it usually takes form oh, and the Philippines, they have it, but they call it something slightly different in the Philippines. They usually take The form of, it says here, it usually takes the form of a pregnant woman who's unable to give birth and in some places, it's just clearly a vampiric, vengeful female spirit, [01:03:00] and where is the thing that scared the shit out of me that I read?

[01:03:03] Oh, okay, first of all, she is usually walkier, she's usually a beautiful woman with pale skin, red eyes, and long black hair. Often dressed in a blood smeared white dress. No thank you. And then some places, she kills her victims. Listen to this, everybody. She kills her victims with her long fingernails to physically remove their internal organs to be eaten.

[01:03:26] I am petrified. Petrified. Here's, okay,

[01:03:30] Sha: here's, here's the thing. I cannot talk about the Puntianaks in Malaysia, It is specifically because of a woman who died giving birth. On a specific day, for some specific reason. Like, to become a ghost or a ghoul, it has to be very specific. And the thing is, she jumps from banana tree to banana tree, and you will hear her from her

[01:03:59] Ashley: [01:04:00] laugh.

[01:04:00] No thanks. Like it is a shrieking,

[01:04:04] Sha: loud laugh and I'm guessing the blood is from the childbirth but it's usually long black hair, long white dress, and she specifically hates

[01:04:15] Ashley: men. Yes, I read that. So I was like, okay, maybe I won't be attacked by her. I'll just, I'll run away. I'm a lady, so maybe they'll be like, oh, she's all right.

[01:04:24] And you know what the

[01:04:25] Sha: messed up thing is? Men can actually acquire huge nails that if they manage to nail it on her forehead, she becomes human and they can marry

[01:04:35] Ashley: her. Yes! I read that. I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, it's an omen,

[01:04:40] Sha: isn't it? you guys are taking this too far. You won't marry, a living human woman.

[01:04:45] You would, you would, like, risk life and limb to go after a dead woman who hates you.

[01:04:53] Ashley: Maybe it's just their kink,

[01:04:54] Sun: you know? They're into that

[01:04:56] Ashley: kind of stuff. Not gonna yuck your yum, but I also, [01:05:00] I read that. I was like, if you get the nail into her head, She will become, it was like, it was like she will become like a good and pious wife, and I was like, pardon?

[01:05:09] So she went from using her fingernails to eat people's organs, to being like, oh, there's a nail in my head now, let me calm all the way down. I'm gonna be a good wife now, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be doing the wifely stuff, I'm gonna be taking care of my man. I'm like, pardon? Did she forget that she was out here murdering people, jumping from banana trees and laughing hysterically and scaring the shit out of everybody?

[01:05:32] What do

[01:05:32] Sha: you mean? I mean, it makes me think of the 17th century doctors who would give lobotomies to hysteric women, hysterical women. And I'm like, that makes no sense to me. And also, how do you get in a position where she's not already murdering you to put that nail in her head?

[01:05:48] Ashley: Yeah,

[01:05:49] Sun: this is this is my theory, right?

[01:05:51] So my theory is that in a lot of Southeast Asian culture there's a lot of stories about angry women ghosts that go specifically after men And I [01:06:00] think these stories started out as a warning to men to not to mess with woman Because I think that at the time a lot of women are still like in positions where they don't have a lot of power I think, this is just my theory, I don't know, I'm not a historian, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my theory is, this is, this is what happened, because, women were like, in positions where they cannot have control, they make up these stories to scare men into not hurting them.

[01:06:25] They say, if you hurt me, I'm going to come after you, after I die. Then you can't hurt me then and then because that happened the men are like no no actually there's a way to counter this I just made I just made it up. I mean if you can do these steps you can counter that ghost. So you're okay

[01:06:44] Ashley: Train of thought I love

[01:06:46] Sha: it.

[01:06:46] It's great

[01:06:51] Ashley: That makes a lot of sense, honestly because it's like, because it's out, it's crazy out here. All right, so now I have, okay, again, with the country grouping, again, didn't work. [01:07:00] We have now, this, this spirit is, says Malaysian in Brunei, and in Indonesian folklore. These are called the Orang Bunian, Orang Bunian, go ahead.

[01:07:14] Bunian

[01:07:15] Sha: is just the Faye people.

[01:07:17] Ashley: Yes, that's what it says. Yeah, I was, I felt better. It's just the fate. It's literally just the fate. We have,

[01:07:24] Sha: , the, the biggest parallel would be the Scottish and Irish folklore. It's literally, they live in the forest, they will steal you and hide you away for 50 years, and then you come back, everybody's like, where you been for, a week?

[01:07:37] And you're like, oh, I had a family with this beautiful woman. And what do you mean, what do you mean a week? It's been 50 years.

[01:07:45] Ashley: Yes, this is, yes, this is what it says at the end of my little thing. So according to some tales, men had married them, married the women, and, but later decided to leave them and return to their families they had left [01:08:00] behind.

[01:08:00] However, after returning to human society, they found that many years had passed and everyone they knew had once died. I was like, oh no! That's terrible. But so don't marry a one of these Fae ladies, because not in Borneo, because you won't see your family again. They'll all be dead

[01:08:21] when you get back. So we have okay, this is again, all right, here we go. This is very This is almost exactly the same as the I'm sorry, guys. I have a terrible short term memory. Also, the Pontiac, the Pontiac. Pontianak. Pontianak. Okay, this is very similar to that. In Thailand, they're called Nangthani.

[01:08:41] And this is a female spirit that is very similar. Banana trees, we got them again. And they're jumping around. And they're trying to kill you if they want. And so that's the tie in. Don't piss off these ghosts in Southeast Asia, everybody. If you're not getting anything else from this, don't piss them off.

[01:08:58] They're not having ti They don't [01:09:00] have time for you. Then we end. In Cambodia, we have, okay, I didn't like this one either. In Cambodia, we have the Krasue, which is a nocturnal female spirit that's floating. It has the disembodied head of a woman, usually young and beautiful, and her internal organs are still attached and trailing from the neck.

[01:09:20] I'm not into it. I don't really like it. If I see that, I'm just gonna die automatically. I'm not going to piss off any spirits in Cambodia either. I don't have time for it. I will throw up. If I'm not

[01:09:31] Sha: mistaken Philippines has aversion except the, the guts and stuff comes from the torso. And they're called menanggal.

[01:09:39] Ashley: Menanggalan. I forgot. That's our next one. Yes. Yes. There's

[01:09:42] Sun: a movie made about this. Cool. I can't remember the name. It's like a horror There's several movies. Yeah, from what I've watched, the one that I've watched, it tries to subvert the trope a little, where, I can't remember. Why do I have such bad memory?

[01:09:56] I'm gonna find it. I'm gonna send a link to you if you want to watch it later. But I remember when I [01:10:00] watched it, I was like, Oh, this isn't too bad. They tried to subvert the trope. It's not just a horror thing. The women themselves are people, yes. They have power and agency and they They're misunderstood, I guess, in a way.

[01:10:11] Because they have no control over the separation thing. I need to watch the movie again in case I'm representing them wrong. I will find it. I'll send it to you if you want to watch it tonight

[01:10:21] Ashley: in the dark. I won't. I will definitely put it in the show notes, but I will not watch it because I am terrified.

[01:10:28] Because, because I'm sorry, Shaw, can you say the name of it again? Which one? The

[01:10:35] Sha: Mananagal?

[01:10:36] Ashley: Yes, yes. How do you spell it? It's M A N A N A N G G A L. Yeah, so it's Mananagal. Mananagal. Okay, thank you so much. The Mananagal, okay, is honestly the scariest one. I'd rather see the Pontianak first. Because if I see this, I'm...

[01:10:58] Like my body, my [01:11:00] spirit will come out of my mouth and I'll be gone because I can't handle this. . The manal is described as scary. Yeah, we know. Thank you Wikipedia. Appreciate

[01:11:13] Yeah. So it's a female now, everybody imagine this. And it has, it has a torso, upper torso, and the gut, your innards, your intestines, are hanging out of the bottom. They don't have legs. And they have bat wings. And they're coming to get you in the night. Yeah, I hope you all have a nightmare like I did.

[01:11:33] Because I don't want this. So apparently they preying on sleeping. Pregnant women. Sorry if you're pregnant listening to this. I apologize. And they have elongated tongue to suck out the hearts of fetuses and the blood of someone who's sleeping. They also haunt newlyweds and couples in love and sometimes newborn children.

[01:11:58] And, oh, and, oh, and [01:12:00] you're screwed if you are a groom who was left at the altar. She's coming after you specifically. Holy shit! She's like, you better, you better secure the bag when it comes to the lady you're marrying. Because if you're left at the altar, she's about to fuck you up. If you sprinkle salt, okay, here we go.

[01:12:21] How to get rid of it. If you sprinkle salt and smear garlic or ash at the top of the standing, of the standing torso. It's fatal to the creature. Oh, that's the other thing about them. So they, leave their legs somewhere else. And they go and, you know, they suck out fetus hearts and stuff.

[01:12:41] And then in the morning, when the sun comes up, they go and rejoin. But if you smear ash and garlic on them, they can't rejoin their legs. And then they just die. By the sunrise.

[01:12:55] Sha: So pretty much the legs are just the charger.

[01:12:58] Ashley: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. [01:13:00] Like, you can't dock the charger anymore. Exactly. That's gonna be our horrifying end to Southeast Asian Ghouls.

[01:13:09] There's way more, but I personally can't deal with it. I'm scared. I'm nervous. They

[01:13:16] Sun: can't get to you. Remember, you're across the ocean. Yeah, that's true. There's

[01:13:20] Sha: no land bridge, so you're fine.

[01:13:22] Ashley: But see, now I'm having a crisis because both of you, this is your fault, both of you, Sun and Shaw, I'm mad because do I want to go to Malaysia?

[01:13:31] Absolutely. Do I want to eat a durian? Probably. Do I want to be haunted by ghosts and possibly have to go to Laos and then have them follow me because they can cross the Lam Ridge? No, I don't. So I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know if I'm going to Malaysia or not. Because I can't decide. The

[01:13:51] Sha: general rule is...

[01:13:53] If you're not scared, if you don't think about it, they won't go after you. I'm on the fence about this. I'm a [01:14:00] skeptic, but also, I have seen some shit. I don't

[01:14:03] Ashley: know.

[01:14:04] Sun: It's really interesting because I really think a lot of people in Southeast Asia, as we're growing up, have seen some shit.

[01:14:11] Even if I'm like, Oh, yeah, there are no ghosts, but also, ooh, I have experienced things that, I cannot explain. It's just so hard to... Completely deny it because a personal experience like I'm always fighting with my logical side to be like so my compromise is just no ghost Here or rather to go scary and there's goes back in Malaysia.

[01:14:29] So I'll be careful

[01:14:35] Sha: Just the general if you smell something really nice or really stinky don't say anything If you hear a voice of a person calling your name where there's nobody around you who knows you Don't reply. If you see mounds of food or bones on the ground, don't cross over it. Don't kick it. Go around it.

[01:14:53] Ashley: Ugh.

[01:14:54] Okay.

[01:14:55] Sun: Half of these rules are just like, preserve nature. Don't take stuff from the jungle, yeah, so like, if [01:15:00] you're, if you're not inclined to do stuff like that, you will not offend any ghost in the first place. I think some of them are very common, oh, don't piss randomly in like the middle of the jungle, hurt someone, or that kind of stuff.

[01:15:10] But if you're not gonna do those kind of things anyway, you're gonna be safe. Plus, usually you're safe in the city, I think. Because you don't go out at night. So

[01:15:19] Sha: I, I don't if Sun does this, but this is something that I do. Whenever I go into a hotel room, I will always knock and announce my arrival and say, Hey, I'm gonna be staying here for three days.

[01:15:30] Can you like,

[01:15:31] Ashley: fuck off to stove? I have no beef with you trying to kill me. You can come back in three days. I'll be gone. , don't use your fingernail to pull out my intestines and, you know, eat them. That'd be cool. Exactly. I'll leave.

[01:15:48] Sha: I don't want to see your visage while I'm

[01:15:51] Ashley: having a shower. Yeah, we're not doing that.

[01:15:54] Because we don't want anyone to slip and fall and die in the shower. Can we be cool? Let's not do [01:16:00] it. All right, everybody. I'm stressed, but we're going to continue. Okay, calm down. Oh, gosh.

[01:16:09] Sha: We can't hurt you. You're across the ocean. I have

[01:16:12] Ashley: to keep remembering that. There's no ghosts in America.

[01:16:15] There's no ghosts in America.

[01:16:18] Sha: Ghosts in America. They're like, oh the Jersey Devil, the Mothman. I'm like, haha,

[01:16:24] Ashley: that's cute. I know I'm not even nervous about that, right? Especially with these.

[01:16:29] Sun: Do you watch the Ghost Files? No. It's okay. It's by two ex BuzzFeed employee and they basically go buzz go BuzzFeed, go ghost hunting and one of them is a super skeptic and I love watching them because one of them's really buzzed leaves and ghosts and like super scared and the other one's like a skeptic.

[01:16:48] And when they go there the skeptic always walks into like the haunted mansion and goes, It's me, your boy, demons, come get me! And he's still alive, it's been like two,[01:17:00]

[01:17:05] three years. And I'm like, it's safe, it's safe to provoke them. It's okay, you just need to have the audacity to. Like he would scream at the ghost, like, come get me! He's like, kill me right now if you are here, prove

[01:17:14] Ashley: you do not want to do that. No, no, no, no, I'm

[01:17:18] Sha: not messing around with that. Like, they will haunt the shit out of you.

[01:17:22] I feel

[01:17:22] Ashley: If I ever go to Malaysia, I'll get off the plane and be like Hello, ghosts I just want you to know, I completely respect you that vampiric eating pregnant woman who can't have a baby, and the one who your intestines are about, I'm not gonna bother you, I promise, I just wanna eat some, a lot of curry meat soup, and then I will leave I just wanna look at you know, what you got going on here, I'm not gonna bother you, I won't be out past eight.

[01:17:48] Please, I beg, don't come, and then I'll go on my trip and then I'll go home. I'm not going to Laos because I don't want them to follow me. I have to go to Laos separately [01:18:00] because I'm not going to mess with it. Okay. We're going to have our story time now. We're going to tell a story. This story comes from Myanmar and it is a beautifully tragic story

[01:18:12] so we have this, this is a story of Xin, Nguyen, and Minh Nadar. I'm going to refer to them as Xin and Minh so I don't keep tripping up over their words. Once upon a time, there was a queen in the kingdom of Sairam across the river Yangon, and this is in Myanmar. So the queen died while she was pregnant.

[01:18:36] But then when she was on the funeral pyre, because this was the traditional way of the burial, funeral pyre, so it's like a big fire. She, excuse me. She They heard a baby crying, and people were like what? And they go and they look, and there was a child, and they're like, Oh, shit! The queen is giving birth while she's dead.

[01:18:57] So she gave birth. [01:19:00] Now, everybody was like, Ooh, I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, because there's a baby being born near a funeral prior, and that's probably not great. So they named the baby Shin Wai Nun. Apologies. You'll, you'll see all the... Spelling and everywhere. So I apologize to anybody who's Burmese who I am saying this wrong.

[01:19:25] So in Shin was her name means left at cemetery and many people in the kingdom were like, hmm um, we don't really want her within the walls of the kingdom because She's probably bad luck She was born in a cemetery. It's probably not good. So people were really afraid of her, but her dad loved her.

[01:19:48] And her dad was like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do as a compromise. I'm gonna build her a giant palace near the river, and then I'll be able to see her every day, but she won't directly [01:20:00] be in the kingdom. Great. Xin

[01:20:06] was growing up, and Xin was beautiful. Xin, Xin was just a gorgeous girl. Word got around that Shin was so pretty, and everybody was like, Oh my god, yay, Shin, she's so beautiful, but actually she's the one who was born in a cemetery, so actually nobody's gonna try to get with her. Across the river, across the river, lived a beautifully handsome prince.

[01:20:30] And the prince, now, he heard that there's a beautiful girl, you know, probably teenagers at this point, he heard there's a hot girl across the river who needs to get married, and he's a hot guy who needs to get married, and he said, alright. I really want to meet this girl. So he went to his dad and he's like dad papa Do you think that you could take me across the river and I could meet?

[01:20:52] The princess shin and the dad was like, no Didn't you hear she was born in a cemetery? And [01:21:00] Min, who's the prince, was like, I don't care. She's hot. And the dad was like, Min, this is a bad idea. Also, another thing you need to know about Min is that Min, when he was born, the astrologist told his dad that He would be killed by a sea creature.

[01:21:19] So his so the local magicians were like no problem We got this under control They made him a magical staff and when he knocked the staff on the ground, he could summon sea creatures So or all kinds of creatures, so it wasn't a problem. They said they're gonna give him command over any animal. So Now back to the, the, the problem at hand.

[01:21:40] Min needs to get across the river to meet Shin. He doesn't know what he's gonna do. And then he's like, wait a minute, I got a magical staff, I could use that shit. So he goes and gets his magical staff, and he's like, tap, tap, tap. I need some help. And then, the king of the crocodiles...[01:22:00]

[01:22:00] Nagmonike, Magnomonike, which name translates to rain cloud. So I'm going to call him rain cloud to make it easier for everybody and myself, because the name is just a little difficult for me to pronounce. So rain cloud, the king of the crocodiles, comes over. And Raincloud's like, Hey, what's going on?

[01:22:17] And the prince is like, Could you do me a favor? Could you take me across the river? And Raincloud's like, Okay, no problem. I'll, I'll do that. So he takes him across the river. So Min gets there. He meets the princess Shin. And he's like, I'm... In love with her. This is amazing. You know, as teens do. Like, he's like, I'm in love.

[01:22:36] She's the best thing that ever happened to me. Shin is like, I'm also in love. I love you so much. Now, they have an arrangement. Every day at dusk, so that Min's dad doesn't find out. The king of Dagon, who's the other king. So Min's dad doesn't find out. He gets on Raincloud every... Day at dusk crosses the river to see Shin.

[01:22:59] [01:23:00] This arrangement's going great. One day Some shit goes down because here's the problem Raincloud is the king of the crocodiles, but he has a few enemies there's a lot of crocodiles who are jealous of him a lot of crocodiles who don't like him too much and They see him doing this Taking the prints across and they're like, we don't like this at all.

[01:23:23] So they, some of the crocodiles get together and they're like, we need to dethrone Raincloud. And they go to one crocodile who they know has a real big gripe with our friend Raincloud. And this crocodile is a female crocodile named Mala Tu. So Mala was trying, so there's two different versions that I read and the versions are a little different.

[01:23:46] In one version it says that Mala two and Raincloud got in a fight. And Raincloud broke her foot, so she was pissed off. And then the other one says that Raincloud had many wives [01:24:00] and she wanted to be one of the wives, but Raincloud rejected her and didn't want to marry her. Maybe then he fought her and broke her foot.

[01:24:06] I don't know. But there's two, two versions, so it could be both. All you need to know is that Malatu didn't like Raincloud at all. So all the other crocodiles who didn't like him were like, Okay, let's all get together and figure out how we can kill him. Cause we're over it. So Malatu was the head of this plan.

[01:24:24] Now, the other thing to know about Burmese crocodiles is that they can shapeshift. This is a fact that you just need to accept right now. They all can shapeshift, and that's it. Mala too is like, I got a plan. She shapeshifted into a cute little maid. And she goes to the palace of the princess shin and says, Oh, I need a job.

[01:24:45] So she gets a job at the palace and the other, this is kind of funny. The other maids were like something's up with that maid. She always smells like fish. And the princess shin is like. You guys need to stop [01:25:00] being mean. So what if she smells a little fishy? Maybe her parents Maybe they, you know, they're fishermen.

[01:25:06] We don't know. But she was, Mala too, the whole point when she got there, and she was like the best maid ever. So she ended up being like, The number one maid for princess shin, so they became super super close So one day the princess shin was like, oh you need to you need to test how much the prince min Loves you and shins like no, I don't like I know he loves me.

[01:25:31] It's not a problem He's coming here riding a crocodile every night. I don't think this guy's doing that for his health and that's who's like, I don't care You need to test his love like it's the only thing that'll be You know, that'll show you that he loves him. Shows you that he loves you. Princess Shin kept saying, no, no, no.

[01:25:51] Mala Tu kept saying, yes, yes, yes. And eventually the princess started to get kind of annoyed about this. So she's like, fine, fine. I'll do it. What do you think that I should do? [01:26:00] And Mala Tu was like, The next time the prince comes, you need to ask him if you can sleep on his right arm.

[01:26:09] Now back in these days, the tradition was that if a woman sleeps on Her love's right arm, it brings bad luck to the man. So Princess Shin forgot about that, the superstition, and she's like, Fine, I'll ask him if I can sleep on his right arm. So that evening, the princeman, he comes over and he's like, My love, I'm here!

[01:26:34] And she's like, Hey babe! And they go to sleep, and she's like, Can I sleep on your right arm? And he's like, I don't think that's a good idea because and she's like, please, if you love me, let me sleep there. And he's like, okay, I'll let you sleep on my right arm, whatever. So she lets, so she sleeps on his right arm all night.

[01:26:55] He wakes up as usual time to go home. They're kissy kissy goodbye. He gets [01:27:00] back on rain cloud to go back across the river before everybody in the kingdom starts to wake up. So here he is across the river. And all of a sudden, Raincloud is attacked by Malatoo, and she went back in the river, she went back to becoming a crocodile, and she attacks!

[01:27:17] Oh shit, this is not good. During the attack, the Prince Min is severely injured. Raincloud is trying to fight Malatoo. Meanwhile, Min is being hit at every which way. Now, Raincloud's like, oh shit! So he takes, Raincloud is a, now he's a crocodile, but he's a giant crocodile. He tells the Prince Min, get in my mouth!

[01:27:38] Meanwhile, the princeman's already injured, right? But he crawls into his mouth, and he's like, I'm gonna get you to shore. Just get in my mouth. All the crocodiles are attacking Raincloud, and Raincloud's like, Oh shit, this is crazy. He's fighting them for time, for a while. Finally gets to the edge of the riverbank, and he's like, Oh my god, that was exhausting, and he [01:28:00] falls asleep.

[01:28:02] Alright? By the time he wakes up, he's like, Oh shit, the prince man has been in my mouth the whole time. So he goes And he spits out the prince man. And the prince man has suffocated, and he is dead. Because he was in his mouth for so long. So Raincloud feels fucking terrible. Because he loves the Princeman, he's super loyal to him, and he's like, oh my god, this is terrible.

[01:28:28] So what he does is he carries the Princeman again in his mouth, all the way to the palace. He gets to the palace, and the king is like, Who, why is there a crocodile at my door? And the crocodile, Raincloud, is like, Oh, I have some terrible, terrible news. And he goes, And there goes the prince man out his mouth.

[01:28:50] And the prince man is dead. And the king is like, what the fuck is happening? And he explains the whole story. He explains about Princess [01:29:00] Shin, and how he has to go across the river every night and he didn't know, and he got a he got attacked by another crocodile. Okay. Now, in some versions Raincloud just goes back to the river.

[01:29:12] In other versions, the king cuts off his head. I don't know what happened. But, what does happen next... is that the whole kingdom now is in mourning because the Prince Min is dead. Obviously, word gets across the river to the Princess Shin. She finds out that Prince Min is dead. She automatically suddenly dies of a broken heart.

[01:29:37] She's so upset. So now the people of Dagon, this is Prince Min's kingdom, they see, they, they put Prince Min on the funeral pyre and they're watching the smoke go up. And all of a sudden they realize There's smoke coming from the other side of the river because that's where Princess Shin is from and her funeral pyre is going.

[01:29:59] So the [01:30:00] two billows of smoke rise up into the air, they intertwine, and become a rainbow signaling that Princess Shin and Prince Min are now together forever in the next life to live happily ever after even though they died. But they're fine in the other world. And that's the story of Princess Shin and Prince Min, and it's a tragic love story, but they're fine now, so it's okay.

[01:30:32] They're just,

[01:30:33] Sha: they're just fine.

[01:30:34] Ashley: They're just fine. They're fine. They're both dead, but they found each other in the smoke, and they made a rainbow, and it's good.

[01:30:42] Sha: So this story is actually made into a postcard for the Tales and Oracle of Eleven's Kickstarter special, so it will never be run again if we get funded.

[01:30:56] And it is about the story, so I actually sat down with Kevin, the artist, [01:31:00] and we spoke. about Shin and Min and Ngamuyek and Malator. And, and I actually asked the question, like, why did Malator hate Ngamuyek so much? Like, why? And he was like, I don't know. So now I know.

[01:31:15] Ashley: Yeah. I know, I read, and I'm sure there's more reasons, but I read two different stories.

[01:31:22] And yeah, one of them was that she's jealous because she wanted to be his wife. The other one is that he broke her foot. And I was like, you know what, to be honest, if someone broke my foot, I'd be pretty fucking pissed off. Also, I agree. Yeah.

[01:31:35] Sha: And also, why not both? Both? It seems like a combination plausible reason.

[01:31:41] And it wasn't, I think Kevin told me about the sleeping under the arm is actually sleeping under the armpit and it depowered the prince. So he didn't have powers anymore, which allowed the rest of the crocodiles to attack him, because he didn't have the power of the [01:32:00] staff.

[01:32:01] Ashley: Yes, okay. And that was another thing that I, because when I was combining the stories, I didn't get to write everything.

[01:32:07] But yeah, in that, in the story I read, it was like he left his staff at home. Like, so then when he was like, wait, I can command animals, he's like, oh shit, I left it at home this time. Okay, that also makes sense though. That's our story of the week everybody good times and I didn't even know it was one of the postcards I looked at the stories that you guys had.

[01:32:25] I was like, oh I want to do one of these stories But then I couldn't find like a long enough story. So I didn't even know it's one of the postcards. So that worked out yeah, Okay, so this brings us to the end of the show This has been so fun learning about all the reasons that I should and shouldn't go to Malaysia and I'm so excited but Son and Shaw, where would you like us to find you on the internet if you want to shout yourselves out and Shout out your Kickstarter, whatever you want to say, go ahead and say

[01:32:56] Sun: it.

[01:32:58] Do you want to go first, Shaw? [01:33:00]

[01:33:00] Sha: Sure. Okay, you can find me at CaptainScooter, C P T underscore C bleh, C P T underscore S C U T E R on Instagram. And underscore underscore sha underscore underscore underscore on Twitter. And it would be nice if somebody would give me like a blue sky ad, like I would be obliged to use it.

[01:33:23] Because I want to run away from Twitter, which, you know, they changed the logo into a pro on site, essentially. So yeah, that's that's where you can find me. Definitely hit up our Kickstarter. Sun.

[01:33:40] Sun: You can find me at MB Sun on Instagram. Where else I think Instagram's probably we're most active. Sounds.

[01:33:51] But if, if you wanna find my website you can sign up for a newsletter. It's mb sun art.com. Because nowadays social media is not really [01:34:00] reliable, so if you wanna know what's up and coming, what projects I'm working on, things like that. I also have a cofi where I sometimes post work in progress or like background stuff and you can sign up for my co flyer for as low as 2, I think.

[01:34:14] And of course you can find us on Kickstarter under Tales and Oracles of Eleven. You can either search it up or you can find the direct link on my Instagram as well.

[01:34:24] Ashley: Yay! So this episode is gonna come out on August 3rd. You have a week still to contribute to the Kickstarter, it's so beautiful, like, if you just look, and you guys made the cutest video ever, I was like, this I was like,

[01:34:45] I really, I

[01:34:46] Sun: was so embarrassed. I'm still turning red thinking about

[01:34:51] Ashley: it, like, it's

[01:34:51] Sha: like, I thought... Like, every time I watch it, I'm like, I could have worded it better. It looks like I'm reading from a script. [01:35:00] I skipped some of the words.

[01:35:01] Sun: To be fair, we were trying to make sure we got all the information, and we're not camera people, we're not...

[01:35:07] Yeah. Like, cause, okay, for this project, I actually tried to push myself as well, out of my comfort zone to do more, I don't want to say content, but like, just make it more interesting for people to know who we are as people. Because with my first campaign, when I made it, I was, I just thought like, oh, this is just a side thing.

[01:35:26] You know, no one's going to be interested. I'll maybe, do like, just okay, and it's fine. So I didn't put a lot of effort in terms of doing promotion of what, why am I making this? I didn't talk about a lot of my backstory. But for this one, because it was such a passion project, I was telling Xia, okay, let's make a video about it.

[01:35:42] Because there's so much. I want to say and convey, and I don't even know if I managed to say and convey because I'm very bad. Shadows. I'm very bad talking about myself and like the work I want to do. I'm trying to get better at it 'cause I know I have to explain to people why I'm pursuing something or why something is so [01:36:00] important to me and to us.

[01:36:02] So yeah, so the video was like really all of my comfort zone. Like whenever I feel film, like any sort of unboxing, I'm already uncomfortable. Whenever I have to talk about any of my decks, I'm already uncomfortable. I'm trying to be so much better at it. I'm like, okay. You gotta do this. You have to get out of your comfort zone and talk about your work.

[01:36:18] You can't just keep posting things and running away because you don't want to

[01:36:28] Sha: talk about it. I think an emotional support turtle, Kevin.

[01:36:31] Sun: Yeah, I have it here. Kevin's like somewhere in this house right now. It's like sitting there. Oh, so the first card I finished was a story from Singapore called the Teotihuacan Island, and it's based around how this turtle is safe to Drowning fisherman?

[01:36:46] Or traveler?

[01:36:46] Sha: So here's the thing about that turtle, right? It saved the two drowning fishermen on the basis that they're supposed to work together and become friends because they hated each other. So the turtle [01:37:00] is watching a boat about to sink and it's like, no, I'll just, I'll just wait and if they don't make friends, I'll let them die.

[01:37:07] Fair.

[01:37:08] Ashley: Fair. He's conflict resolution. He's a mediator. He's like, I will save you, but you guys have to hug it out. And they're like, resolve your problems or you will die. Or die. This is your get together shirt. Yes! With the boat, and there is death. Absolutely, I think that's fair. I'm totally on the turtle's side.

[01:37:29] Yeah, so that's how you brought

[01:37:30] Sun: Kevin into the video.

[01:37:33] Ashley: I love, I think the video's great. And it is hard to get out of that comfort zone. I'm also like that. I don't like to like, Put myself, my face, and be like, Hi, everybody! Because I'm like, I don't think people give a shit. But I've like, lately, the past couple of months, I'm like, I have to push myself out there.

[01:37:50] And it's been hard. It's been rewarding. But it's, it's, it is hard to do. But I think the video is fantastic. I love it. The deck is gonna be beautiful and fantastic. [01:38:00] Please go to the Kickstarter. Look at it. Take a look. It's beautiful. Get the, you might as well. You want to hear more awesome stories, you want to see all of Sun's awesome artwork, and you want to read all of Sha's awesome words, just, just buy the deck!

[01:38:14] You'll see it! It's great! I love it. Yeah, so that brings us to the end of the show. Thank you guys so much for being here. This was like literally so fun. And we could go on for another hour about Southeast Asian ghouls, but I encourage you to do your own research because I'm too scared to do again, everybody, this is Dine with the Divine. Thank you for listening. You can find us on Instagram, on Facebook. If you really like the show, I really would appreciate if you give us a rating on whatever platform you listen to it. It helps more people find us. So you can give us a rating, you can write a review if you'd like, and if you have any suggestions for episodes you'd like to hear, stories, questions, comments, please feel free to email me.

[01:38:55] I dine with the divine pod at gmail. com or you can go on the website. You can leave [01:39:00] a contact form Whatever way is best for you And if you want to follow me ashley, i'm at sankofa hs. That's s a n k o f a hs And sankofa healing sanctuary on facebook. Thank you so much for being here shaw and son. You guys have been awesome and thank you everybody and we will chat again next week.

[01:39:20] Bye everyone. Bye Bye